Posted on 12/04/2013 3:17:41 PM PST by servo1969
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2056400/posts?page=5#5
To: blue-duncan; All
Here is a good place to start in an investigation of historicity of Jesus of Nazareth, right here on Free Republic. Blue Duncan transferred FF Bruce’s entire book text here, starting with Chapter one.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1971569/posts
THE NEW TESTAMENT DOCUMENTS Are they Reliable? (Preface, Chapt. 1)
http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/ffbruce/ntdocrli/ntdocont.htm ^ | 1959 | F. F. Bruce
Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 2:24:23 PM by blue-duncan
5 posted on Mon 04 Aug 2008 01:27:59 PM PDT by Kevmo (A person’s a person, no matter how small. ~Horton Hears a Who)
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Evidence that Jesus claimed to be God. *************************************
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2056400/posts
Jewish Polemic in commentary of Rabbi Eleazar Hakkapar (ca 170 a.d.) per JGGG.
“God saw that a man, son of a woman, would come forth in the future who would endeavor to make himself God and
to lead the whole world astray.... For it is said: ‘A man is not God.... And if he says he is God, he is a liar.
And he will lead men astray and say that he is going and will come back again at the end of days.’ Is it not so
that he spoke thus, but he will not be able to do it. “
Gosh that sounds like the rabbi is describing the AntiChrist.
Justin Martyr and Eusebius mention a circular letter issued by the Sanhedrin.
Martyr Quotes from it:
“...a certain Jesus of Galilee, an apostate preacher whom we crucified; but his disciples stole hime by night
from the cross; they did this in order to persuade men to apostasy by saying that he had awakened from the dead and
ascended into heaven.” Per JGGG jewish tradition for at least a century afterwards independently continued to
reject Jesus on the basis of his claim to deity.
Of course we know that the Sannhedrin could not have crucified this Jesus, because the Gospel asserts that Jesus was crucified by the Romans.
Oh, gosh, your sources disagree. Perhaps one of them made it all up? Who is wrong?
That would be the one that has impossible things in it.
3) that Jesus had been resurrected from the dead, and thereafter was seen by over five hundred eyewitnesses
(most of whom were alive when Paul wrote) (1Cor 15:4,5)
Name them. Gather their testimony. I will wait.
No, I don’t accept it.
I don’t have any eye witness testimony.
And G-d ain’t sending me emails on the subject.
Also keep in mind that the early church did not think the canon documentation adequate, so they concocted pious frauds.
Later, some were too obvious, and were not admitted to the canon. But the need to author fraudulent documents shows that the available documentation was, even at that early date, considered inadequate.
I agree with the early church that the documentation is inadequate. I just don’t think that fraud is an appropriate response to that inadequacy.
What an irrational statement; I think.
Yeah; indeed!
Ah...
That was before we humans got downgraded to animals: much because of Darwin's 'understandings'!
The excluded middle is extremely large.
Dang!
We sent a boat; and then a BIGGER boat and then a HELICOPTER; but the flood victim kept saying he was waiting to be rescued!
Does it REALLY matter WHY??
It's the RESURRECTION that gives ME hope!
The thief on the cross was saved without ever seeing the resurrection. If a guy won’t acknowledge simple facts of history, he won’t acknowledge the resurrection. So the best thing to do is focus on the death of Christ. Of course He died. And of course He was put to death for blasphemy, even his enemies acknowledge that.
Not to me.
It sounds like the 'rabbi' IS!Anti-Christ!
1 John 2:22-23
"Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also."
1 John 4:2-3
"By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world."
2 John 1:7
"For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist."
No, I don’t accept it.
***Your idealogical blinders have blocked off a simple view of history, one of the best attested events in history itself. Do you accept that Julius Caesar was a roman general who became the first emperor? How can you, when there are no eyewitness testimonies which reach your standard of history?
I don’t have any eye witness testimony.
***There were dozens. Paul wrote in Corinthians that there were many who were still alive. Even the enemies of Christ put out a circular saying that he was put to death for blasphemy. Your idealogical blinders are utterly irrational.
And G-d ain’t sending me emails on the subject.
***And neither is Julius Caesar. History is history, regardless of how important you like to think you are.
Hebrews 6:4-6
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
It's my prayer that you aren't THIS far gone; yet.
Thomas; you would not be satisfied.
'They' did??
I just KNEW that eye witnesses were good for SOMETHING!!!
Name them. Gather their testimony. I will wait.
***Name any other figure in history that meets this standard you have set up. I will wait. You throw out Hammurabi, David, Moses, Julius Caesar, Columbus, even George Washington with such an impossibly anti-scientific historical standard.
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