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To: Bellagio

That’s why it is a classical model and not modern. The chart describes guys like Thomas Hobbes and John Locke, two men that greatly influenced our Founding Fathers. Today, the political spectrum is a mixed bag of political, economical, religious, and racial agendas.


26 posted on 11/29/2013 5:17:55 AM PST by Azeem (There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo.)
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To: Azeem

I don’t disagree with your assessment of today’s “mixed bag” political spectrum. But speaking in relative modern terms... the label “Conservative”, used in context of the American political spectrum, not at all carries the same meaning or connotation within the European political model. At the time of our founding fathers, the proposed US Constitution was a radical grand experiment with its protections and guarantees of individual natural rights and having supreme authority over its object of governance. Embolden with absolutism for the sovereign (the states and the people)and that Government was an artificial construct authorized by the people having enumerated limited powers with vested absolute power held by the states and its people respectively. Specifically the inalienable right to own property (land) which was a 180 degree turnabout from the feudal systems of the single noble(inherent) ruling-class over serfs that existed for centuries in Europe... the noble class otherwise being referred to as the Conservative Ruling Class.

Europe Conservative Right Wing = Ruling classes of the classic European Monarchies, Theocracies and Oligarchies... such as Anarchists, Communists, Progressives, NAZIS, Socialists, Nationalists, Marxists, Fascists, Statists, Islamist and just about anybody that wants to rule the world.

Europe Liberal Left Wing = Self-governing, free-market individualists... or as in the Liberal ideals of Thomas Hobbes I paraphrase Wikipedia... “Champion of absolutism for the sovereign; advocating the right of the individual; the natural equality of all men; the artificial character of the political order (which led to the later distinction between civil society and the state); the view that all legitimate political power must be “representative” and based on the consent of the people; and a liberal interpretation of law which leaves people free to do whatever the law does not explicitly forbid.” - Pierre Manent, An Intellectual History of Liberalism (1994) pp 20–38

So relative to the European political landscape and before the declaration of independence, Articles of Confederation and the US Constitution... our founding fathers and like thinkers were most definitely Left Wing extremists of the classic European liberal.

Indeed the American “Conservative” and right-wing were akin to the like ideals of the European Left like Thomas Hobbes and John Locks. The New American Conservative right is of the old European Liberal left. And the New American Liberal left is of the old European Conservative right, which makes them here in the US the real tyrants and dictators.

Our founding fathers and their radical experiment would go on to define a new political spectrum in America... where Europe left & right were virtually flipped. The ideals of American governance were to be the new standard... the new political RIGHT from which all who deviated LEFTWARD from the principles of Liberty, Freedom, individual rights, self-governance and the rule of law were judged.

Of course the left deliberately and knowingly applies the European model to the modern day Constitutionalist and the advocates of “original intent” to paint them as dictators, theocratic zealots, statists, NAZIS or fascists. And it’s the same spectrum the left uses as propaganda and indoctrination thru the public school systems, MSM Marxist commentary, and Liberal political speech which is successfully labeling conservatives as extremists.

Anyways, my only gripe is that when you invoke/quote the European classic model it just fuels/aids their (the lefties) smear of the American conservative.


27 posted on 11/30/2013 5:53:46 PM PST by Bellagio
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