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To: reaganaut
I wish you would have pinged me to this. Let's lay off Jeff, OK?

Can we have celestial glory without the LDS church? If not that means Joseph Smith trumps Christ and Christ died and resurrected in vain.

The LDS would say you cannot gain celestial glory outside of the LDS church, but that's because they believe that their church is the Church. The same way the Catholic Church believes it is the Mother Church and the one and only church, Lutherans, Baptists, etc. Would you really want to belong to the "We're Just Like Them, But Different Christian Church" aka Universalists or the "It's all Good Church"?

Everybody thinks they belong to the true church. Why would you knowingly belong to a false one?

The second part of your post doesn't follow from the first. That doesn't mean that Joseph Smith trumps Christ and Christ died and resurrected in vain. It simply means that you must do as Christ said, "keep the commandments." You'd say, that all you need is to believe in Jesus Christ as your personal savior. That's just as repugnant to those who believe in the Bible and Christ's call to do work in his name and keep the commandments.

Your hyperbole and lies kills your arguments and makes your conversion seem angry, not revelatory.

196 posted on 10/28/2013 10:15:09 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD; reaganaut; Godzilla; Greetings_Puny_Humans; All
The LDS would say you cannot gain celestial glory outside of the LDS church, but that's because they believe that their church is the Church. The same way the Catholic Church believes it is the Mother Church and the one and only church, Lutherans, Baptists, etc. Would you really want to belong to the "We're Just Like Them, But Different Christian Church" aka Universalists or the "It's all Good Church"? Everybody thinks they belong to the true church. Why would you knowingly belong to a false one?

Here's the $billion Q then, 1010: Do you, or don't you, know the Mormon teaching that ONLY those who wind up living in the celestial realm of heaven live eternally with Heavenly Father?

I respectfully request a "yes, I know" or "I'm not sure" or "No, they don't" answer to that Q right up front.

Because if you DO know this...and there's no reason not to given that
(a) It's been CLEARLY enunciated by Mormon leaders and
(b) I've mentioned this NUMEROUS times on FR threads,
then aren't you being intellectual dishonest with this comment of yours?

When you say, "The LDS would say you cannot gain celestial glory outside of the LDS church," what that really translates into Lds-doctrine wise is, "you cannot live with Heavenly Father unless you a married temple Mormon."

Therefore, since Christianity doesn't even recognize a heavenly Fatherless heaven (iow, a heaven minus Heavenly Father is no heaven at all!), then Mormonism is guilty of the same condemnation Jesus gave to legalistic Pharisaicalism:

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. (Matthew 23:13)

Mormons attempt to "shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces" by claiming that you have to be a married temple Mormon to live with eternal Father forever! Not such a Mormon? Then per Mormonism, no Heavenly Father for you!!!

208 posted on 10/28/2013 11:52:20 AM PDT by Colofornian
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