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To: clintonh8r
I'm could be wrong but I believe it's called the Ruger Mini 14. The Air Force Sea/Sar teams use it as well and because of poor stopping power of the 9mm pistol certain branches of the military are allowing the use of the .45 pistol(but you, the soldier or marine have to buy your own.) In an article I read, either on Front Page Magazine or maybe here, the intell units of the Army and the Marine Corps conducted some extensive examination of the regular Iraqi Army and Republican Guards as well as the irregular forces like the Fedyeen Saddam and their fighting abilities , small unit tactics and their over-all competence on the battlefield. While the regular army units put up little organized resistance, having experienced the might of the US military in 1991, the Republican Guard did attempt to engage Coalition forces using mortars and some artillery, but they too didn't see the sense in being butchered for a dying, despotic regime and either surrendered or simply took off their uniforms and went home.
They did happen though to score a Sunday punch however when using spotters and cell phones, managed to get the coordinates of the 3rd Inf/Mech's Tactical Operations Center and hit it with a Frog-7(free range over ground) missile. It caused some casualties but it was up and running again in an hour. It was the performance of the irregular forces that intrigued the intell guys the most. All most all of them were either from Egypt, Syria or Yemen with no real training at all. They had little or no understanding of fire and maneuver and almost always presented themselves as targets. Our soldiers and marines told stories time and again of having put four or five and sometimes more rounds into these guys from M-16s and they just keep coming. When engaged with the 240 machine guns or .50 cals, they went down and stayed down but it was disconcerting for them to see how little effect the high velocity 5.56 mm on some of these jihadis. And the 9mm Bereta? One soldier said, ''that thing did little more than piss them off''. What was discovered though in autopsies on the jihadis is that they were pumped up full of amphetamines, pain killers tranquilizers , all kinds of dope so they wouldn't feel pain that much. Kind of a ''poor mans'' body armor. What the jihadis who surrendered were afraid of and in awe of was the almost unerring aim of our soldiers and marines when they were engaging the enemy using their rifles. Some of them thought our guys possessed some kind of ''evil magic''.
99 posted on 09/22/2013 7:36:07 PM PDT by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
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To: jmacusa

Thanks. I could be wrong as well, but I don’t think the Mini 14 chambers the same round as the M14. I admit...it’s late and I’m probably confused. Anybody who can set me straight?


102 posted on 09/22/2013 8:24:54 PM PDT by clintonh8r (Don't twerk me, Bro!)
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To: jmacusa

“I’m could be wrong but I believe it’s called the Ruger Mini 14. The Air Force Sea/Sar teams use it as well and because of poor stopping power of the 9mm pistol certain branches of the military are allowing the use of the .45 pistol ...”

No US DoD organization has used Ruger’s Mini-14 in anything but experimental/developmental quantities. It is more lightly constructed than the M-16, more difficult to manufacture, less durable, and less accurate.

To reiterate, “stopping power” cannot be found in any US DoD glossary of terms, is nowhere formally defined, and has yet to be quantified.

Forum members post as if none have heard about the JSSAP organization that conducted the M1911A1 pistol replacement demonstrations and OT&E - the group that recommended the adoption of the Beretta 92 variant now known as US Pistol, M9.

The whole effort was deliberately placed under a USAF organization at Eglin AFB on Florida’s Panhandle - a bureaucratic move that had no precedent, as the US Army had by that point owned all prior responsibility for small arms development and selection, dating back some three generations.

Via the best-conceived, most carefully planned, most rigorous, best-documented operational testing up to that date, JSSAP concluded that the 9x19 pistol round (which out-powers the 45 ACP cartridge in some loadings) led the pack in several key performance attributes, the chief of which were kinetic energy transfer to target, body armor penetration, and effective range. Added benefits: much greater number of ready rounds in the magazine, and the higher round count for any given weight load.

It was conceded that NATO’s adoption of 9x19 as the standard handgun cartridge was inescapable politically. The US was then (circa 1980) still in quite bad odor among NATO members, for forcing the issue in the 1950s on rifle/machine gun cartridge selection.

“... intell units ... conducted some extensive examination of the regular Iraqi Army and Republican Guards as well as the irregular forces ... the performance of the irregular forces that intrigued the intell guys ... discovered though in autopsies on the jihadis is that they were pumped up full of amphetamines, pain killers tranquilizers ...”

Fanatics pumped up on drugs and jazzed up by propagandizers have been a longtime concern of US forces. See reports on the Philippine Insurrection, the US Army’s ugly experience of the early 20th century, the one that brought the juramentados of the southern islands up against Army regulars. The pop history / gun culture aficionadoes recall it as the conflict that enshrined the 45 cal as *the* pistol bore diameter of choice, but any beyond the shallowest study immediately reveals that no issue arms of the day could guarantee results against what are now judged to have been drug-crazed fanatics. Even the 30-40 Krag comes off as inadequate, despite close-range performance equal or superior to 7.62 NATO. The best-rated “man-stopper” - necessarily at close range - was the shotgun.


109 posted on 09/28/2013 10:03:30 AM PDT by schurmann
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