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To: Pontiac
Well that is stupid of anyone who thinks they will stop a charging and/or angry bear with any gun is just stupid. Statistics do not support that....

However, the rate is 100% with bear spray.

Grizzlies, polar bears, black bears, brown bears, etc all have been stopped with bear spray.
Failure rate of zero.
Best of all it is far less expensive than fire arms.... does not have to be cleaned or stored in a safe between being shot.
Best $30 anyone can spend for security in the wild or your home.

Now that is not to say guns are stupid or not needed and we should be allowed to own and use them just cause it is OUR RIGHT..... just read the constitution... but for protection against bears they are not the best thing.

Bear spray is. Bear spray will stop all the other nasties in the wild too.
However, I don't know if it has been tested on Zombies so you may need a gun for them.
51 posted on 06/19/2013 3:58:53 PM PDT by JSteff (It was ALL about SCOTUS... We are DOOMED for several generations. . Who cares? The Dems care!)
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To: JSteff

There are plenty of guns which will stop a charging bear assuming a hit in the right spot.

I personally think I would want a .50 cal. machine gun and even that might seem light if one were really charging me.


55 posted on 06/19/2013 4:04:40 PM PDT by yarddog (There Are Three Things That Remain--Faith, Hope, and Love--and,the Greatest of These is Love..)
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To: JSteff
Well that is stupid of anyone who thinks they will stop a charging and/or angry bear with any gun is just stupid. Statistics do not support that.... However, the rate is 100% with bear spray.

I don’t know where you get your statistics from but if it is from a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Fact Sheet # 8 (the only thing on line that I could find that actually claims to have compiled data) I don’t consider the US Government a reliable source when it comes to natural phenomena.

61 posted on 06/19/2013 4:25:59 PM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: JSteff; All
However, the rate is 100% with bear spray.

I do not believe it. I recall at least one incident where someone was mauled and had bear spray on them, but I have been unable to find it. I did find this description of the research to show that bear spray was so effective. Even it only claims that the spray is 90-92 percent effective. Now look closely at how they compare the numbers. They only count uses of a gun to stop bears where maulings actually occured. That is completely stacking the deck. It is one of the worst cases of data selection bias that I have ever seen.

To compound the error, then they include all cases of where bears did *not* commit maulings but where pepper spray was used on the side of "successful" uses of pepper spray.

This is not a study. This is full blown advocacy disguised as a study. Maybe there is a better "study" out there. I would be glad to look at it.

Does carrying a gun prevent serious or fatal injuries by bears? Not according to Kaniut’s list. In 86 (70 percent) of the 122 maulings where enough information is provided, either the victim or someone else in the party had a firearm. Of course, some bears are shot before they can do any damage. These encounters aren’t included in Kaniut’s list and aren’t necessarily reported. A firearm can be useful, as Herrero attests, but obviously firearms don’t prevent maulings. Many of the victims in Kaniut’s list were injured before a firearm could be discharged, or the shots missed the bear. In 40 (36 percent) of 110 maulings someone in the party had wounded the bear before or during the attack.

How about Herrero’s contention that a firearm may increase the likelihood or severity of a bear attack? Based on Kaniut’s list, in 30 percent of the 40 attacks where the bear was wounded before or during the attack, the bear killed at least one person. In 24 percent of the 86 attacks where someone in the party had a firearm, a person died. That seems like a high fatality rate to me.

Is a firearm better protection than bear spray? Bear spray -- a concoction of propellants and capsaicin (from red pepper) that burns the eyes and mucous membranes -- is effective up to about 30-35 feet. Dr. Tom Smith, Herrero and others assessed the effectiveness of bear spray in 72 incidents in Alaska where someone used it in defense. Bear spray was effective in 92 percent of the 50 cases involving grizzlies and 90 percent of the 20 cases involving black bears. No one who used bear spray was killed. In the nine instances where a grizzly charged a person, the bear broke off the encounter after it was sprayed, and only one person was injured. The injury was relatively minor, deep scratches requiring stitches. Eventually, someone who uses bear spray will be severely injured or killed by the bear. But it seems clear that bear spray promises to be at least as effective at preventing maulings as a firearm.

Here is the link: http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/are-guns-more-effective-pepper-spray-alaska-bear-attack

I think that bear spray can be effective in some circumstances. To claim that it is 100% effective is naive. How about attacks where it is raining hard and or the wind is blowing hard? Airborne spray will be far less effective in such circumstances.

Another person who has studied bear attacks (James Gary Shelton, Bear Attacks, The Deadly Truth) has estimated that bear spray is effective about 2/3 of the time.

Bears often display bluff charges where they pull up short and eventually leave. The way the data was collected above, all bluff charges would be counted as successful uses of bear spray, and not noted as defensive uses of firearms.

66 posted on 06/19/2013 7:01:19 PM PDT by marktwain (The MSM must die for the Republic to live. Long live the new media!)
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To: JSteff

68 posted on 06/19/2013 7:42:13 PM PDT by Rodamala
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