Posted on 06/05/2013 7:52:32 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Decades ago, the distinguished Lincoln biographer David Herbert Donald coined the phrase getting right with Lincoln to describe the impulse people feel to appropriate Lincoln for their own political agendas. Anyone who has watched Barack Obama, who as a senator wrote an essay for Time magazine entitled What I See in Lincolns Eyes and swore the oath of office as president on Lincolns Bible, will be familiar with the phenomenon. Democrats like to claim Lincoln as, in effect, the first Big Government liberal, while Republicans tout him as the founder of their party.
But the reflex identified by Donald isnt universally felt. A portion of the Right has always hated Old Abe. It blames him for wielding dictatorial powers in an unnecessary war against the Confederacy and creating the predicate for the modern welfare state, among sundry other offenses against the constitutional order and liberty.
The anti-Lincoln critique is mostly, but not entirely, limited to a fringe. Yet it speaks to a longstanding ambivalence among conservatives about Lincoln. A few founding figures of this magazine were firmly in the anti-Lincoln camp. Libertarianism is rife with critics of Lincoln, among them Ron Paul and the denizens of the fever-swamp at LewRockwell.com. The Loyola University Maryland professor Thomas DiLorenzo has made a cottage industry of publishing unhinged Lincoln-hating polemics. The list of detractors includes left-over agrarians, southern romantics, and a species of libertarians people-owning libertarians, as one of my colleagues archly calls them who apparently hate federal power more than they abhor slavery. They are all united in their conviction that both in resisting secession and in the way he did it, Lincoln took American history on one of its great Wrong Turns.
The conservative case against Lincoln is not only tendentious and wrong, it puts the Right crosswise with a friend. As I argue in my new book, Lincoln Unbound, Abraham Lincoln was perhaps the foremost proponent of opportunity in all of American history. His economics of dynamism and change and his gospel of discipline and self-improvement are particularly important to a country that has been stagnating economically and suffering from a social breakdown that is limiting economic mobility. No 19th-century figure can be an exact match for either of our contemporary competing political ideologies, but Lincoln the paladin of individual initiative, the worshiper of the Founding Fathers, and the advocate of self-control is more naturally a fellow traveler with todays conservatives than with progressives. In Lincoln Unbound, I make the positive case for Lincoln, but here I want to act as a counsel for the defense. The debate over Lincoln on the Right is so important because it can be seen, in part, as a proxy for the larger argument over whether conservatism should read itself out of the American mainstream or in this hour of its discontent dedicate itself to a Lincolnian program of opportunity and uplift consistent with its limited-government principles. A conservatism that rejects Lincoln is a conservatism that wants to confine itself to an irritable irrelevance to 21st-century America and neglect what should be the great project of reviving it as a country of aspiration.
The fundamental critique of Lincoln is that he was the Great Centralizer, as columnist and George Mason economist Walter Williams puts it. He earned this pejorative sobriquet, first and foremost, by resisting secession, which remained a reserved right of the states, in the words of Thomas Woods in his Politically Incorrect Guide to American History. In defending secession, Lincoln-haters often revert to the brilliant 19th-century South Carolina politician and thinker John C. Calhoun, although hes a dubious source of wisdom about the Constitution. (I draw particularly on the excellent work of Thomas Krannawitter in his Vindicating Lincoln and Daniel Farber in his Lincolns Constitution in what follows.)
Calhoun didnt want to preserve the constitutional order, but to change it to afford even more protections for the slave states. Historian Richard Hofstadter called him The Marx of the Master Class. He disdained the Federalist Papers. Believing that the Constitution represented only a loose compact between the states, he thought the country had gone wrong from the very first Congress, which had set the country on a nationalist path from which it has never yet recovered. He wanted to substitute his own constitutional scheme involving nullification by the states under his doctrine of concurrent majority for that of the Founders.
Calhouns theories got a test run in the Nullification Crisis of the early 1830s, when South Carolina nullified the so-called 1828 Tariff of Abominations before backing down in the face of President Andrew Jacksons fierce reaction (a compromise was forged over tariff policy). Then came the Souths secession after Lincolns election in 1860, which was defended in Calhounite terms by Jefferson Davis himself. He said that each State was, in the last resort, the sole judge as well of its wrongs as of the mode and measure of redress. Indeed, it is obvious that under the law of nations this principle is an axiom as applied to the relations of independent sovereign States, such as those which had united themselves under the constitutional compact.
There is nothing in the text of the Constitution to suggest that it is a treaty among independent nations, and the right to secession shows up nowhere. You dont need to embrace Lincolns robust nationalism he thought the Union had existed prior to the Constitution and the states, and argued that perpetuity is implied, if not expressed, in the fundamental law of all national governments to reject nullification and secession. You need only go to the Father of the Constitution, James Madison.
Madison held something of a middle position. He explained in Federalist 39 that we have neither a national nor a federal Constitution, but a composition of both, or, as he said elsewhere, a new Creation a real nondescript. That didnt mean that the union wasnt a nation. What can be more preposterous, Madison asked, than to say that the States as united, are in no respect or degree, a Nation, which implies sovereignty; altho acknowledged to be such by all other Nations & Sovereigns, and maintaining with them, all the international relations, of war & peace, treaties, commerce, &c. In the 1869 case of Texas v. White, the Supreme Court nicely stated a Madisonian view of the question: The Constitution, in all its provisions, looks to an indestructible Union, composed of indestructible States.
Madison considered Calhouns views dangerous. If the states had the power to decide whether or not to abide by federal law, it would lead to clashes between state and federal officials in executing conflicting decrees, the result of which would depend on the comparative force of the local posse. It put powder under the Constitution and Union, and a match in the hand of every party to blow them up at pleasure. Secession was the twin of nullification, and Madison urged in 1832, It is high time that the claim to secede at will should be put down by the public opinion.
It hasnt been entirely put down yet. In his anti-Lincoln tract The Real Lincoln, Thomas DiLorenzo argues that secession is as American as apple pie. The United States were founded by secessionists, he insists, and began with a document, the Declaration, that justified the secession of the American states. No. The country was founded by revolutionaries and the Declaration justified an act of revolution. No one denies the right of revolution. Madison said that revolution was an extra & ultra constitutional right. Even Lincoln, in his First Inaugural Address, concedes the point: If, by the mere force of numbers, a majority should deprive a minority of any clearly written constitutional right, it might, in a moral point of view, justify revolution certainly would, if such right were a vital one.
The friends of secession arent eager to invoke the right to revolution, though. For one thing, when a revolution fails, you hang. For another, the Declaration says a revolution shouldnt be undertaken for light and transient causes, but only when a people have suffered a long train of abuses and usurpations. What was the train in 1860 and 1861? Seven southern states left the Union before Lincoln was inaugurated. The South had dominated the federal government for decades. Abuses and usurpations? Its more like lose an election and go home.
As Thomas Krannawitter points out, the Founders thought revolution was justified in the case of a violation of natural rights. The Confederates, in contrast, wanted to wage a revolution to ensure no interference with their violation of the natural rights of slaves.
This gets to another element of the anti-Lincoln case, which involves denying or downplaying the role of slavery in secession and the Civil War. DiLorenzo says, for example, that Lincolns cause was centralized government and the pursuit of empire. Walter Williams addressed the issue in a column aptly titled The Civil War Wasnt about Slavery. Charles Adams, author of When in the Course of Human Events: Arguing the Case for Southern Secession, pins the war on economic and imperialistic forces behind a rather flimsy façade of freeing slaves. The pro-secessionists typically fasten on the tariff as the cause of all the unpleasantness.
This is laughable. The tariff wasnt anything new, and in fact was the main source of revenue for the federal government. Tariff rates bumped up and down. When South Carolina got the ball rolling on secession in December 1860, the tariff was at its lowest level since 1816, thanks to southern and western success at dropping rates in 1857. The Morrill tariff, steeply hiking rates and supported by Lincoln, passed the House in May 1860. But it didnt pass the Senate until early the next year, its cause aided by the departure of southern senators who were no longer there to vote against the measure that some of their chronologically challenged latter-day apologists would hold responsible for their exit.
Theres no doubt that the South had reason to be aggrieved by high tariff rates favoring northern manufacturers, and the issue came up in its justifications for leaving the Union. But it was decidedly secondary to the primary issue: slavery, slavery, and slavery. South Carolinas declaration of secession complained, first of all, that northerners had become maddeningly lax about returning fugitive slaves to bondage. The second sentence of the Georgia declaration was: For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. Mississippi avowed with refreshing frankness: Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery the greatest material interest of the world.
Even DiLorenzo concedes that slavery was the initial cause of secession, but he does it almost by way of an aside, so that he can keep his focus on the tariff and economics. But slavery was the Souths prism for everything. Some southerners worried that if the federal government could impose a tariff, it could interfere with slavery. The Souths commitment to federalism was highly situational. It insisted on a federal Fugitive Slave Act to tighten the screws on anyone in the northern states who was insufficiently zealous about returning runaways. Southern Democrats walked out of the 1860 Democratic convention when the party couldnt forge a consensus on a platform demanding federal protection for slavery in the territories.
Lincolns forceful response to the dissolution of his country is another count against him for his critics. They, of course, call him a dictator, among other choice names. Economist Paul Craig Roberts called him an American Pol Pot, except worse. For DiLorenzo, he was a glutton for tyranny. These Lincoln-haters are real sticklers for the Constitution yet have no use for the admonition in Article II that the president take care that the laws be faithfully executed.
They come up with fanciful alternatives to military conflict. Ron Paul wonders why Lincoln didnt forestall the war by simply buying up and freeing the slaves. With his usual sense of realism, Paul ignores the fact that Lincoln repeatedly advanced schemes for just such a compensated emancipation. Lincoln argued for these proposals as the cheapest and most humane way to end the war. But except in the District of Columbia, they went precisely . . . nowhere. The border states werent selling, let alone the South. Even little Delaware, which was selected as a test case because in 1860 it had only 587 slaveholders out of a white population of 90,500, couldnt be persuaded to cash out of slavery. One plan proposed by Lincoln would have paid $400 or so per slave and achieved full abolition by 1893. A version of the scheme failed in the states legislature.
The bottom line is that the South created a national emergency, and, ever since, its apologists have excoriated Lincoln for responding with emergency powers. After the Confederacy fired on Fort Sumter in April 1861, Lincoln replied with every lever at his disposal and then some. He called out the militia. He blockaded southern ports. He called for volunteers to increase the size of the regular army and expanded the navy. He directed that $2 million be forwarded to private citizens in New York for expenditures related to the national defense (he suspected the loyalty of the federal bureaucracy). He did all of this without consulting Congress, which wasnt in session. Lincoln, who wanted to control the early response to the war, didnt call it back until July 4.
There was no doubt about his power to call out the militia. For the rest, he fell back on the authority of Congress. These measures, whether strictly legal or not, he said in his July 4 message to Congress, were ventured upon, under what appeared to be a popular demand, and a public necessity; trusting, then as now, that Congress would readily ratify them. Expanding the military and appropriating funds without Congress cant pass constitutional muster, but Congress did indeed bless all his military measures retroactively in the bills language, as if they had been issued and done under the previous express authority and direction of the Congress of the United States.
Most controversial is Lincolns suspension of habeas corpus. He first suspended it between Washington and Philadelphia in April 1861 after troops heading to the undefended capital from the north were attacked by a mob in Baltimore, after which Baltimore railroad bridges and telegraph lines were cut. This was a genuine crisis of a government beset by enemies on all sides. Article I, section 9 of the Constitution says, The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it. The circumstances certainly justified suspension, but the placement of this provision in Article I suggests it is a congressional power.
Congress rendered the question moot in 1863 when it passed a law saying the president had the power to suspend. As the suspension covered the entire country, the military arrests and trials brought inevitable overreaching and abuses. They earned Lincoln a rebuke from the Supreme Court after the war, when it ruled against military trials where civilian courts were still open. Some high-profile arrests, most famously of the anti-war Democrat Clement Vallandigham of Ohio in 1863, without Lincolns prior knowledge have proven embarrassments for the ages. But in his careful, Pulitzer Prizewinning study of civil liberties during the war, Mark Neely gives a basically exculpatory though hardly uncritical verdict on the Lincoln record.
Overall, according to Neely, arrests were of less significance in the history of civil liberties than anyone ever imagined. He points out that even Lincoln-administration officials often used the term political prisoner for any civilian held by the military, a highly misleading label. A majority of the arrests, he writes, would have occurred whether the writ was suspended or not. They were caused by the mere incidents or friction of war, which produced refugees, informers, guides, Confederate defectors, carriers of contraband goods, and other such persons as came between or in the wake of large armies. They may have been civilians, but their political views were irrelevant.
Lincoln wasnt a dictator; he was a wartime president operating at the outer limits of his power in dire circumstances when the existence of the country was at risk, and inevitably he made mistakes. Lincoln didnt try to put off elections, including his own in 1864, which he was convinced for a long stretch of time that he would lose.
Yet another favorite count against Lincoln on the Right is that he was the midwife for the birth of the modern welfare state a false claim also made by progressives bent on appropriating him for their own purposes. The war necessarily entailed the growth and centralization of the state, but this hardly makes Lincoln a forerunner to FDR or LBJ. The income tax required to fund the war, instituted in 1861 and soon made into a progressive tax with higher rates for the wealthy, was a temporary measure eliminated in 1872. Wars are expensive. In 1860, the federal budget was well under $100 million. By the end of the war, it was more than $1 billion. But the budget dropped back down to $300 million, excluding payments on the debt, within five years of the end of the war.
To see in any of this the makings of the modern welfare state requires a leap of imagination. In the midst of the war, the State Department had all of 33 employees. The famous instances of government activism not directly related to the war the subsidies to railroads, the Homestead Act were a far cry from the massive transfer programs instituted in the 20th century. The railroads got land and loan guarantees but were a genuinely transformational technology often, though not always, providing an economic benefit. The Homestead Act, as Lincoln historian Allen Guelzo argues, can be viewed as a gigantic privatization of public lands, which were sold off at a cut rate to people willing to improve their plots.
In the North during the war, historian Richard Franklin Bensel points out, the industrial and agricultural sectors ran free of government controls. The labor force, although tapped for manpower for the war, was relatively unmolested. The government became entangled with the financial system, but that system was also becoming more modern, sophisticated, and free of European influence. Given its vitality and wealth, the North could wage the war without subjecting itself to heavy-handed command-and-control policies. Compared with the overmatched Confederacy, it was a laissez-faire haven.
It was, rather, the southern political economy that came to depend most heavily on bureaucratic control and government expropriation, as Bensel notes. An extensive conscription law effectively subjected the entire labor force to centralized direction. The government had the discretionary power to exempt certain occupations and to detail men to civic duties deemed necessary; private concerns, therefore, depended on the government for workers. Despite a constitutional prohibition, the government subsidized the construction of railroads and by the end of the war assumed control of them and, by extension, the supply of raw materials.
The Confederacy impressed property from manufacturers, farmers, and railroads to supply the military. The system led to wide-ranging price controls. One Confederate congressman complained of the government agents who were as thick as locusts in Egypt. Under pressure from the Union blockade, the government eventually prohibited the importation of luxuries and took control of a vast array of exports. It imposed a more progressive income tax than the North did. In short, the Confederates pioneered a program of war socialism back when Woodrow Wilson the progressive president who would run the countrys economy on a similar basis during World War I was still in knee-pants.
Lincolns economics are hardly invulnerable to criticism. He was indeed a government activist, though at a time when government was different from what it is today vastly less extensive and obstructive, with the wealth transfers of the modern welfare state nowhere in sight. Throughout his career he supported internal improvements (i.e., transportation projects), a protective tariff, and sound, duly regulated banking. These policies were associated with their share of waste and corruption. On the other hand, wherever canals and railroads touched, they brought the competitive pressure of the market with them; the tariff was a support to the growth of industry; the banks produced a reliable paper currency necessary for a cash economy. They all tended to create a vibrant, diverse economy open to men of various talents. Here is where Lincoln is guilty as charged: The agrarians are right that he sought to end the simpler, agricultural America in favor of a modern commercial and industrial economy.
There is one final indictment against Lincoln. It is said that he elevated the Declaration and the principle of equality that it enshrines over the Constitution. NRs venerable senior editor Frank Meyer worried that he had loosed a free-floating, abstract commitment to equality throughout the land that supported the leveling tendencies of modern liberalism. But Lincolns equality was the equality of natural rights, not results. I take it, he said in 1860, that it is best for all to leave each man free to acquire property as fast as he can. Some will get wealthy. I dont believe in a law to prevent a man from getting rich; it would do more harm than good. He warned a delegation of workingmen during the war of the peril of a war on property, or the owners of property: Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself.
Lincoln thought the purpose of the Constitution was to protect the inalienable rights enunciated in the Declaration; but this did not downgrade the Constitution. Despite his opposition to slavery, he honored the Constitutions protections for it, even as his abolitionist allies bridled at them. In his final speech of the 1858 Senate campaign against Stephen Douglas, he said, I have neither assailed, nor wrestled with any part of the Constitution. The legal right of the Southern people to reclaim their fugitives I have constantly admitted. The legal right of Congress to interfere with the institution in the states, I have constantly denied. When Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation, he did it as an inherently limited war measure. Allen Guelzo notes how he never lost sight of its prospective legal vulnerability once the war ended. He finally looked to the 13th Amendment a completely constitutional measure as the Kings cure for all the evils.
I think it is important to clear away the anti-Lincoln flotsam so that conservatives can appreciate what Lincoln has to teach them, especially in this moment when opportunity in America is under threat from stultifying and wrongheaded policies and from an ongoing cultural breakdown. Notwithstanding the Rights ambivalence about Lincoln, he has always had friends in unexpected places. The great traditionalist Russell Kirk, despite devoting a chapter to Calhoun in his classic The Conservative Mind, admired Lincoln. In his great conservative end, the preservation of the Union, he succeeded, Kirk wrote, noting the charity and fortitude of this uncouth, homely, melancholy, lovable man. The formidable agrarian Richard Weaver also has a brilliant chapter on Lincoln in his book The Ethics of Rhetoric. He argues, With his full career in view, there seems no reason to differ with [Lincoln law partner William] Herndons judgment that Lincoln displayed a high order of conservative statesmanship.
Then there is William F. Buckley Jr., who didnt always agree with his friend Frank Meyer. Buckley wrote a letter to the editor dissenting from one of Meyers anti-Lincoln blasts in the 1960s. Some conservatives have a Thing on Lincoln, including, unfortunately, my esteemed colleague Mr. Frank Meyer. Buckley especially regretted the charge that Lincoln was anti-humanitarian: It seems to me that this is worse than mere tendentious ideological revisionism. It comes close to blasphemy. So many decades later, tendentious revisionism and blasphemy are still favorite tools of the anti-Lincoln Right.
We should reject them now, as Buckley did then, and re-discover the Lincoln who told the 166th Ohio regiment during the war that it was through this free government that they had an open field and fair chance for [their] industry, enterprise, and intelligence, and equal privileges in the race of life, with all its desirable human aspirations. He concluded, The nation is worth fighting for, to secure such an inestimable jewel. That jewel still needs to be secured, and it is still worth fighting for.
Rich Lowry is editor of National Review. Parts of this essay are drawn from his new book Lincoln Unbound: How an Ambitious Young Railsplitter Saved the American Dream and How We Can Do It Again, coming out this month from Broadside Books.
SEE - Post #179 William Rawle
In 1791 President Washington appointed him United States district attorney for Pennsylvania, in which capacity he prosecuted the leaders of the Whiskey Insurrection.
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Now-
Please provide a link to historical documentation to substantiate your assertion that the Executive as written in Article 4 Section 4 of the US Constitution means the Executive of the federal government and not an Executive of the several States.
On this day in 1864, Union General William T. Sherman orders the business district of Atlanta, Georgia, destroyed before he embarks on his famous March to the Sea.
When Sherman captured Atlanta in early September 1864, he knew that he could not remain there for long. His tenuous supply line ran from Nashville, Tennessee, through Chattanooga, Tennesse, then one hundred miles through mountainous northern Georgia. The army he had just defeated, the Army of Tennessee, was still in the area and its leader, John Bell Hood, swung around Atlanta to try to damage Sherman's lifeline. Of even greater concern was the Confederate cavalry of General Nathan Bedford Forrest, a brilliant commander who could strike quickly against the railroads and river transports on which Sherman relied.
During the fall, Sherman conceived of a plan to split his enormous army. He sent part of it, commanded by General George Thomas, back toward Nashville to deal with Hood while he prepared to take the rest of the troops across Georgia. Through October, Sherman built up a massive cache of supplies in Atlanta. He then ordered a systematic destruction of the city to prevent the Confederates from recovering anything once the Yankees had abandoned it. By one estimate, nearly 40 percent of the city was ruined. Sherman would apply to the same policy of destruction to the rest of Georgia as he marched to Savannah. Before leaving on November 15, Sherman's forces had burned the industrial district of Atlanta and left little but a smoking shell.
It would be nice if you had your facts straight before you attack another Conservative.
The bill only extended background checks to gun show and Internet sales putting them on the same level as you local gun store. It kept private transfers between family and friends exactly as it is now (no background checks), and it expressly prohibited establishment of any national registry with criminal penalities for any breaucrat who attempted to establish one.
And, of course, that was the second time Atlanta had been burned. The first time was when Hood set fire to his ammunition train, and withdrew from the city. The fires started at the orders of pretended confederate general Hood were put out by the invading US Army.
General Thomas was one of the best generals of the war, a loyal solder from Virginia.
What social issue on my profile page do you have a problem with? How does it differ from yours?
Gosh, I guess there is a controversy as to whether the word “Executive” means the same thing in different places in the constitution, or means one thing in one place and another thing in another depending on what a defender of the slave power wants it to be.
That would mean there might be a controversy, which the party interested in changing federal behavior should have taken to the SCOTUS. But the southern states never asserted that the federal government had no authority to put down the insurrection at the SCOTUS. Gosh, they must have been really stupid, and lazy as well as treasonous.
Rawles: he might just be wrong on that one. I will also note that insurrection is different from domestic violence, so your argument supporting limitations on federal action to constrain domestic violence does not apply to limit federal authority to end an insurrection. Certainly there may be domestic violence with no insurrection, and there may be insurrection without domestic violence.
My favorite line of reasoning was put forward by Senator Sumner, who asserted that when the states pretended to secession, they lost all authority as states (and recognized that by withdrawing their representatives) but the ground remained territory of the US, and thus plenary power normally exercised by the states would be shifted to the federal government, as it would be for any other territory.
Under that authority, the US reconstituted state governments after the insurrection had been quashed. Recognizing that reasoning, the SCOTUS ruled that the southern insurrection had never achieved a legal secession in Texas v. White. That resolved the controversy.
I will also note that state government are not required to have an executive separate from the legislature. By happy accident all at present do, but the UK parliament does not.
No, you didn’t fix it. You took a truth, and added a word to make it a lie. Shame on you.
There were four Commentaries written prior to the War. The first was published when the Constitution became fully into effect in 1803 - at the point of completion of the federal enclave.
NOTE that the last one (by Story) repeats the first (by Tucker) verbatim, and both of those agree with Rawle.
Kent's statement 'controlled by the principles of justice and sound policy' is not applicable ONLY if you believe that the Constitution is NOT based on such principles, because the Founders saw fit to clearly label the title of Article IV THE STATES - which means every executive named therein is an Executive of the State.
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It may not be amiss further to observe, that every pretext for intermeddling with the domestic concerns of any state, under colour of protecting it against domestic violence is taken away, by that part of the provision which renders an application from the legislative, or executive authority of the state endangered, necessary to be made to the federal government, before it's interference can be at all proper.
St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries (Annotated), 1803
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At the same time it is properly provided, in order that such interference may not wantonly or arbitrarily take place; that it shall only be on the request of the state authorities: otherwise the self-government of the state might be encroached upon at the pleasure of the Union, and a small state might fear or feel the effects of a combination of larger states against it under colour of constitutional authority;
William Rawle, A View of the Constitution of the United States, 1825
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. (snip) The right of interposition must depend upon the special circumstances of the case. It is not susceptible of precise limitations, and is extremely delicate in the application. It must be submitted to the guidance of eminent discretion, and controlled by the principles of justice and sound policy. It would clearly be a violation of the law of nations to invite subjects to revolt who were under actual obedience, however just their complaints; or to endeavor to produce discontents, violence, and rebellion in neighboring states, and, under color of a generous assistance, to consummate projects of ambition and dominion. James Kent , Commentaries on American Law, 1826
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§ 1819. It may not be amiss further to observe, (in the language of another commentator,) that every pretext for intermeddling with the domestic concerns of any state, under colour of protecting it against domestic violence, is taken away by that part of the provision, which renders an application from the legislative, or executive authority of the state endangered, necessary to be made to the federal government, before it's interference can be at all proper. Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution, 1833
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Please provide a link to historical documentation to substantiate your assertion that the Executive as written in Article 4 Section 4 of the US Constitution means the Executive of the federal government and not an Executive of the several States.
Stories like this are usually filled with half truths and lies. There is no defense for jailing members of legislatures or suspending habeas corpses.
I fully agree....but your post made me LOL! I'm glad I'm not the only one the spell-checker does that to!
'habeas corpses' :-)
None of your references refer to insurrection.
They don’t apply.
Of course there is a defense: It is necessary for public safety during an insurrection.
The States means that the topics refer to topics that affect the states. It doesn’t mean that all words in the section refer to the states. If the document was as you said then
Section 1 “...And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.”
and
“Section. 3.
New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union;...”
and
“The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.”
would refer to the congress of a state, which it doesn’t and noone has ever asserted that it did. But you suddenly assert that that discussion of powers for the federal government in its relations to the various states now changes at section 4, and legislature and Executive not must mean only the executive and legislature of the state, which would give a veto power to any force that could murder enough state officials.
Bad argument, one might go so far as to say it is a foolish argument.
Please provide a link to historical documentation to substantiate your assertion that the Executive as written in Article 4 Section 4 of the US Constitution means the Executive of the federal government and not an Executive of the several States.
Please provide a link to historical documentation to substantiate your assertion that the Executive as written in Article 4 Section 4 of the US Constitution means the Executive of the federal government and not an Executive of the several States.
I refer you to post 274.
I refer you to post 274.
This phobe sucks for that! Took me a minute to just get that through.
What insurrection? So you will support zero doing it, all he has to do in your feeble mind is claim there is an insurrection.
Let’s face it. You have always been a yankee liberal and bigoted towards half this country. Typical liberal.
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