Cold fusion reactor independently verified, has 10,000 times the energy density of gas

Intrade Gateway via Extreme Tech ^ | May 21, 2013 at 12:43 pm | Sebastian Anthony

[Kevmo]

Might as well post this in smoky backroom. Perhaps the mods won't pull this thread.

[Kevmo]

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/156393-cold-fusion-reactor-independently-verified-has-10000-times-the-energy-density-of-gas

[Kevmo]

The Cold Fusion/LENR Ping List

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles

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http://lenr-canr.org/

[saganite]

It’s only the fifth report of the same result that you’ve posted for the previous week. No reason for the mods to pull it. /s/

[Cicero]

So, if I understand this correctly, whatever is inside the cylinder produces 10,000 times as much energy as an equivalent amount of gasoline. But what the scientists don’t know is how much energy went into making whatever is actually inside the cylinder.

Perhaps this is a highly efficient energy storage device rather than an energy producing device.

Well, hopefully at some point we’ll see what’s going on here.

[Kevmo]

and yet they pulled the last one

Tests find Rossi’s E-Cat has an energy density at least 10 times higher than any conventional energy source

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3023012/posts

[Kevmo]

But what the scientists don’t know is how much energy went into making whatever is actually inside the cylinder.

Perhaps this is a highly efficient energy storage device rather than an energy producing device.
***Absolutely. But the anti-science anti-LENR types will think you’re bonkers for such a suggestion, which I have posted in the past.

[redgolum]

Again, we will see.

[Steely Tom]

Just for perspective, nuclear fission reactions release about a million times as much energy per unit fuel mass as do chemical reaction. Fusion releases another three or four orders of magnitude on top of that.

But I’m not saying I’m not hopeful. Maybe there are losses (although if the output of this device is heat, I’m having trouble seeing where those losses go). Maybe the measurement of “missing mass” is off for some reason.

[muawiyah]

So, I gather one of the mods is a LUDDITE? Or is he heavily invested in Obama's windmill schemes?

Hmmmmmm, gets mysteriouser and mysteriouser!!!!!

[exDemMom]

If Rossi and Focardi’s cold fusion technology turns out to be real — if the E-Cat really has 10,000 times the energy density and 1,000 times the power density of gasoline — then the world will change, very, very quickly.

Um, yeah. When real physics are involved, no one ever has to wait and see if something "turns out to be real." It's amazing how scams have to find their basis in laws of physics that supposedly haven't been discovered yet.

[NonValueAdded]

we should stress that they still don’t know exactly what’s going on inside the sealed steel cylinder reactor.

Joseph Smith and the Golden Plates?

[Kevmo]

Sounds like you don’t trust the physics background of the 7 scientists involved. What exactly would be YOUR background to question these folks (and the Swedish Industrial Group ELFORSK)???

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex- href=”mailto:l@eskimo.com”>l@eskimo.com/msg80825.html

Giuseppe Levi
Assistant Professor
Department of Physics and Astronomy
Bologna University
Bologna, Italy
Bio:
http://www.unibo.it/SitoWebDocente/default.htm?upn=giuseppe.levi%40unibo.it&TabControl1=TabCV

Website: http://www.giuseppelevi.it/
Publications: http://academic.research.microsoft.com/Author/47387224/g-leviand
http://www.unibo.it/Faculty/default.htm?TabControl1=TabPubs&upn=giuseppe.levi%40unibo.it

Evelyn Foschi “is in the product development department for medical
devices, University of Bologna. Her specialty is X-ray.” —
http://andrearossiecat.com/e-cat/members-of-the-3rd-party-report-commission
Publications: No.

Torbjörn Hartman
Senior Research Engineer
The Svedberg Laboratory (which specializes in proton therapy and is
attached to Uppsala University)
Uppsala, Sweden,
Publications:
http://www.journalogy.net/Author/53814223/torbjorn-hartman?query=Torbj%u00f6rn%20Hartman

Bo Höistad
Professor
Department of Physics and Astronomy, Nuclear Physics
Uppsala University
Uppsala, Sweden
Publications: http://www.journalogy.net/Author/51661212

Roland Pettersson
Senior Lecturer
Department of Chemistry - BMC, Analytical Chemistry
Uppsala University
Uppsala, Sweden
Publications:
http://academic.research.microsoft.com/Author/56841550/roland-pettersson

Lars Tegnér
Professor Emeritus
Department of Engineering Sciences, Division of Electricity
Uppsala University
Uppsala, Sweden
Publications: Doctoral thesis -
http://uu.diva-portal.org/smash/record.jsf?searchId=2&pid=diva2:298914 -
otherwise apparently not published unless he is also P.-E. Tegnér in which
case he’s somehow connected to Stockholm University:
http://academic.research.microsoft.com/Author/13416120/p-e-tegner

Hanno Essen
Docent and Lecturer
Department of Mechanics of the KTH Royal Institute of Technology
Stockholm, Sweden
Publications:
http://academic.research.microsoft.com/Author/12981049/hanno-essen

Essen, Rossi’s site notes, was at one time critical of Rossi and the E-Cat.

Jed Rothwell Thu, 23 May 2013 15:52:40 -0700

Mark Gibbs wrote:

Essen, Rossi’s site notes, was at one time critical of Rossi and the E-Cat. Anyone got any citations?

He published some strong remarks, years ago. I expect you can find them easily with Google. He was the president of the Swedish Skeptics Society, so it is no surprise he had it in for Rossi, and for cold fusion in general.
I find it almost miraculous that anyone connected with a “Skeptics Society” can bring himself to say anything positive about cold fusion. Essen is not your typical capital-S Skeptic.
- Jed

19 posted on Friday, May 24, 2013 12:26:55 PM by Kevmo (”A person’s a person, no matter how small” ~Horton Hears a Who)

[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies | Report Abuse]

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To: All; y’all; et al

.

http://coldfusion3.com/blog/giuseppe-levi-goes-on-record-to-discuss-e-cat

Giuseppe Levi goes on Record to Discuss E-cat
August 25, 2011

A respected Italian physicist has gone on record to defend Sergio Focardi and Andrea Rossi’s e-cat. Giuseppe Levi, a professor at the University of Bologna and a colleague of Sergio Focardi sat down for a long video interview with Steven B Krivit of New Energy Times in June. The video was only made available at the New Energy Times website on August 14.

Levi spoke English and he is very easy to understand and entertaining. He gave some good points to Krivit who did not appear to talk much. Levi is an expert on nuclear physics, energy physics and sub nuclear physics who has worked on satellites and other projects in the past.

Levi’s main points were:

• He has worked with Focardi on other projects and respects him.

• Levi has been following Rossi and Focardi’s work for three years but only examined the e-cat itself on December 16, 2010. He did extensive testing of the e-cat and apparently believes Rossi’s claims.

• Levi is a member of the US group the Skeptic’s Society and he applied their “baloney detector kit.” (A set of parameters for the detection of fraud developed by the late Carl Sagan) to the e-cat and found it was not baloney.

• Levi said he investigated the e-cat because it is his duty as a scientist. He also wanted to protect the University of Bologna’s reputation from a possible fraud.

• Levi did admit that the e-cat was developed in what he called an “industrial” and not a research environment.

• The January e-cat news conference and demonstration by Rossi and Focardi was done in order to show the scientific community the validity of the e-cat and protect Focardi’s reputation.

• Levi seems to be concerned about Focardi’s reputation and is trying to protect it.

• Levi said other scientists including chemists have examined the e-cat and verified some of the results.

Levi also gave some interesting quotes in response to Krivit’s questions.

When asked why he investigated the e-cat, Levi said: “You must go and look by yourself. It is one of my duties I am a researcher I am paid by public money. Something very important was going on with the name of the University of Bologna. It was my duty to know if it was something real. If it is something real we must make research on it.”

When asked if the e-cat represents a new physics or not, Levi said: “There is not a new quantum mechanics but some new phenomenon.”

[Kevmo]

No, this is not religion. It’s simple black box testing. Energy in and Energy out. Can you trust 7 scientists to measure such a thing?

[Kevmo]

As Reagan used to say, "Well...."



LENR seems to have its own set of Anti-Science Truthers. In the last couple of years, there has been quite a bit of activity in the area of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions. Originally, the field was called Cold Fusion in 1989 when Pons & Fleischmann announced their findings prematurely. They were ridiculed and blacklisted by scientists who could have lost funding for their nuclear projects in 1989, even though some of their findings were soon replicated.. You can get the story here:

http://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?page_id=263


In fact, the only verified instance of Fraud in LENR was when MIT scientists fudged their results to show a negative result rather than the positive one the data supports.

The ongoing story here on Free Republic has been one where the detractors use ridicule, falsehoods, false argumentation, classic fallacies, misdirection, and all manner of unscientific and ugly behavior other than to discuss the science behind the claims. In order to fight fire with fire, I started calling these pathological skeptics “seagulls” but the moderator told me not to do that. So the skeptopaths are allowed certain tactics on FR but the LENR afficianados are not. It turns out that one of the moderators resigned, and his scientific background was lacking in terms of being able to properly absorb this material. At one time he even put it on the same level as BigFoot without backing it up when confronted:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2754976/posts?page=51#51


And even though the Anomalous Heat Effect has been replicated hundreds of times by more than a thousand scientists, even in mainstream peer-reviewed journals.

https://springerlink3.metapress.com/content/8k5n17605m135n22/resource-secured/?target=fulltext.pdf&sid=xwvgza45j4sqpe3wceul4dv2&sh=www.springerlink.com
.
Jing-tang He
• Nuclear fusion inside condense matters
• Frontiers of Physics in China
Volume 2, Number 1, 96-102, DOI: 10.1007/s11467-007-0005-8
This article describes in detail the nuclear fusion inside condense matters—the Fleischmann-Pons effect, the reproducibility of cold fusions, self-consistency of cold fusions and the possible applications
.
Note that Jing-tang He found there were 14,700 replications of the Pons Fleischmann Anomalous Heat Effect. http://www.boliven.com/publication/10.1007~s11467-007-0005-8?q=(%22David%20J.%20Nagel%22)

.
National Instruments is a multibillion dollar corporation that does not need to stick its neck out for “bigfoot stories”. After noting more than 150 replications, they recently concluded that with so much evidence of anomalous heat generation...
http://www.22passi.it/downloads/eu_brussels_june_20_2012_concezzi.pdf
Conclusion
• There is an unknown physical event and there is a need of better measurements and control tools. NI is playing a role in accelerating innovation and discovery.



The current state of the science of LENR is that the Pons Fleischmann Anomalous Heat Effect has been replicated and it is an established scientific fact. But it is not an established ENGINEERING field because the effect is difficult to generate and there is still some lingering stigma associated with the field. The level of pathological resistance this field receives is unconscionable for those of us who seek scientific answers and engineering solutions.

If you find that the thread leads to this post it is because I no longer respond to the seagulls, I send all inquiries to this post so that crickets are not generated, nor is there an impression left that they have an objection worth pursuing. If lurkers feel the objection is worth pursuing, they can repost the same question.
To learn more about LENR, I recommend the LENR-CANR website
http://lenr-canr.org/

[Paladin2]

"Can you trust 7 scientists to measure such a thing?"

That's what explosions are for. The energy is much more difficult to hide.

[Jack Hydrazine]

What’s really interesting about this is the scientists studying cold fusion don’t understand why it works (when it works) and why they can’t make it work consistently.

[MHGinTN]

Have they tested for static field causing variations in response?

[1rudeboy]

So, I gather one of the mods is a LUDDITE? Or is he heavily invested in Obama's windmill schemes?

I'm sure it had nothing to do with the flamewar that erupted. Why look for a simple explanation, when a conspiracy theory suffices?

[Jack Hydrazine]

I don’t know. From what I have read (and understand very little) they keep theorizing as to why and how it works but no matter how hard they try to make their theories stick they all just fall apart.

I’m wondering if there is something on the quantum level that is happening that makes the explanation of how and why they work defy conventional explanations.