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To: highball
Supporting your assertion is a Swiss writer who died before the Declaration of Independence was written.

You left out a bunch of people. Aristotle, James Monroe, James Madison, Chief Justice Marshall, Justice Washington, Dr. David Ramsey, Chief Justice Waite, The entire Supreme Court of Pennsylvania in 1808, With supporting commentary from George Washington, John Adams, Four Congressmen in the Debates on the 14th amendment, and a whole lot more people besides. I believe it's safe to say that you really have no idea how many people are supporting "my" assertion. It's more accurate to say that "I" am supporting Theirs.

Supporting mine? The Father of our Constitution.

No he isn't. He's pointing out that in absence of positive law, Common law is the default. He says so in his previous commentary.

It were to be wished, that we had some law adduced more precisely defining the qualities of a citizen or an alien; particular laws of this kind, have obtained in some of the states; if such a law existed in South-Carolina, it might have prevented this question from ever coming before us; but since this has not been the case, let us settle some general principles before we proceed to the presumptive proof arising from public measures under the law, which tend to give support to the inference drawn from such principles.

.

I’m pretty comfortable is saying that it’s not Madison who’s interpreting the document incorrectly.

You're pretty comfortable in saying it because you have been misinformed, and don't know what you are talking about. Madison is NOT interpreting the US Constitution. The constitution of that time said nothing regarding what constitutes a citizen. Madison even says that states can make their own laws to decide what the requirements for citizenship are. If you are going to argue with people who've researched this, you ought to get your facts straight before you pop off.

So answer me this smart guy, if being born here was the only requirement to be a citizen, why did they bother creating the 14th amendment?

69 posted on 04/13/2013 6:12:46 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: DiogenesLamp
So answer me this smart guy, if being born here was the only requirement to be a citizen, why did they bother creating the 14th amendment?

Simple - the Supreme Court erred grievously in Dredd Scott, ruling that black people could not be American citizens. SCOTUS does make mistakes from time to time, you know.

This particular mistake was so outrageous, so counter to the spirit of both the Constitution and the United States that the founding document had to be clarified to strike their error from our nation.

Now it's my turn: when we push for a Human Life Amendment, is that admitting that Roe v. Wade was correctly decided in full accordance with the Constitution? Or is it the people trying to overcome one of the Court's terrible, terrible mistakes? If the latter, then the 14th Amendment has nothing to do with this conversation.
73 posted on 04/13/2013 8:11:40 PM PDT by highball ("I never should have switched from scotch to martinis." -- the last words of Humphrey Bogart)
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To: DiogenesLamp; highball
You left out a bunch of people. Aristotle,

... has nothing to do with the meaning of "natural born citizen" whatsoever;

James Monroe, James Madison

...said no such thing;

Chief Justice Marshall, Justice Washington,

...quoted Vattel, but not in regard to citizenship;

Dr. David Ramsey

...was no authority on citizenship, as shown by the fact his claims regarding citizenship were voted down 36 to 1 by our first House of Representatives, led by Madison;

Chief Justice Waite

...was quoted by the US Supreme Court as having NOT been committed to the view that all children born in the United States of citizens or subjects of foreign States were excluded from being born citizens;

The entire Supreme Court of Pennsylvania in 1808

...said absolutely no such thing;

George Washington

...who never stated citizen parents were required, and was a dual citizen with France WHILE serving as President;

John Adams

...who likewise never said any such thing;

Four Congressmen in the Debates on the 14th amendment,

...who have been egregiously misquoted, who never intended to exclude anyone but Indians and the historical exceptions from being born citizens, and who stated in the US Senate that the only people (other than Indians) born on US soil who weren't citizens were the historical exceptions (e.g., the children of ambassadors)

...and who also equated "born a citizen" with "natural born citizen;"

and a whole lot more people besides.

...like Herb Titus, who gives his opinion without citing any authority at all.

I believe it's safe to say that you really have no idea how many people are supporting "my" assertion.

Highball may or may not, but I have a good idea.

We have David Ramsay, who was voted down 36 to 1.

We have Samuel Roberts, and obscure judge from Pennsylvania, who presided over several counties, and who is directly contradicted by far more authoritative sources.

We have Alexander Porter Morse, who seems to contradict himself, and in one part of his book seems to clearly contradict your claims.

We have one of the Justices in the awful Dred Scott case, although he wasn't citing Vattel to say that children of non-citizens were not natural born citizens; he was citing Vattel to establish that Mr. Scott was "property" and not a "person," and another Justice on the Court clearly contradicted the birther claim.

And of course we have a bunch of modern birthers, post 2008.

There MIGHT be a few more, but in the whole of American history, that's at least getting pretty close to the entire list of people of any note who really, truly did claim what DL says is the gospel truth.

And the short list is contradicted by every OTHER authority in US history. James Madison, William Rawle, Zephaniah Swift, St. George Tucker, those who knew and worked with the Founding Fathers, every early translator and commentator who had anything to say on the subject of Presidential eligibility, an HONEST reading of the debates in Congress after the US Civil War, the United States Supreme Court, authors of hundreds of textbooks and other commentaries on the Constitution throughout history, more recent Justices such as Sandra Day O'Connor, genuine conservative authorities such as the Heritage Foundation, National Review, Mark Levin, on and on and on the list goes.

74 posted on 04/13/2013 8:12:09 PM PDT by Jeff Winston
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