So, are "Background Checks" really "Gun Owner Registrations"

My Inquiring Mind ^ | March 25, 2013 | frankenMonkey

[DManA]

I make a distinction between private censorship and government censorship.

I don’t have to come here. I have to live in the US.

[MHGinTN]

I we actually still had a we the people Constitutional Republic I would say there must be limits to how much the government can dictate you can or cannot, must or must not do. But alas, the Republic is dead as an empty beer can, so there are no actual limits now to what the oligarchical bastard can dictate.

[fso301]

I did not beat it to death, but I have asked two local gun dealers within the past 30 days how long they keep the paper and they said forever.

I seem to recall that if an FFL goes out of business, they have to handover their records to the ATF. All businesses eventually go out of business.

[marktwain]

I believe 4473 forms are required to be kept for 20 years. If the dealer goes out of business, the records get sent to the ATF.

I think they digitize them after that.

One thing we should push for is destruction of the 4473s and bound books. There is no real benefit to keeping that data except as a basis for a national registration.

Traces solve almost nothing. The cost to benefit ratio is exceedingly low.

[old curmudgeon]

Exactly.

When you figure that most criminals buy their guns “hot” off the street, there is no paper trail on them.

A few of the nut cases buy from a dealer, but nut cases are so many times hard to identify until after the crime.

Paper trails do nothing to find these people.

But lawmakers will take the one or two cases where paper helped and blow it up into a cure all for all bad things.

Cost matters not because it is not their money.

[TurboZamboni]

Why is the SERIAL NUMBER and MODEL NUMBER needed for a background check?

It seems to us that you should ONLY check the person and be done with it.

Nothing is gained with serial and model numbers, UNLESS someone is trying to build up a database for later confiscation.(which our government denies they want to do)

“California’s state Senate Democrats roll out big gun control package”

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_22544460/californias-state-senate-democrats-roll-out-big-gun

“...and consider taking the state’s 166,000 registered assault weapons from their owners.”

So much for all those reassurances that ‘registration will not lead to confiscation’.

[Travis McGee]

[coloradan]

... unless, of course, the “benefit” is that of a national gun registration database. I would be much more ok (though, not absolutely ok) with background checks if there was no way to connect the make, model and serial number(s) of the gun(s) purchased with the identity of the purchaser. But, the 4473s have all such information. The 4473s are indeed gun registration.

[2ndDivisionVet]

“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”

― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

[frankenMonkey]

I’d like to thank everyone who read and contributed to this post. It’s plain to me now that registration, especially the 4473s and the requirements for make and serial number, is fully in-place, and ready to facilitate confiscation.

Seems like the NRA and whatever GOPers with gonads have some additional work cut out for them...

Ugh.

[satan]

When conducting a background check in Virginia the only information provided concerning the firearm is the type – rifle, pistol, shotgun, revolver. Nothing more. No manufacturer, caliber, or serial number.

If an unlicensed individual acquires two or more pistols or revolvers during five consecutive business days the dealer submits a Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers to the ATF and the State Police. This report includes Type firearm, serial number, manufacturer, model, importer, and caliber. It also includes the name, address sex, ethnicity, race, type of identification and ID number, birth date, and place of birth.

The ATF 4473 contains all this information and is retained by the dealer until he goes out of business. The 4473s are then sent to the ATC.

Occasionally the dealer will receive a call from ATF asking that a copy of the 4473 be sent to them. ATF provides firearm description and serial number and an estimated date the firearm was transferred. One can assume these are traces of stolen firearms or firearms found at a crime scene. Who knows.

[satan]

Assume: Ass-u-me

[satan]

From the Virginia State Police website:

What are the laws concerning the private sale of a handgun?

To privately sell a firearm, it is recommended that you safeguard information pertaining to the transaction such as the date the firearm was sold, the complete name and address of the buyer, and the make, model, and serial number of the firearm. The seller and buyer of a handgun must be a resident of the state in which the transfer occurs. Should the firearm ever be located at a crime scene, trace of the firearm will determine the licensed dealer who last sold the firearm and will identify the last buyer of the firearm. To have your name removed from this process, you may consider placing your firearm on consignment with a licensed dealer. This will also ensure that the firearm is transferred only to a lawfully eligible individual.

[tpmintx]

There are stories going around that ATF has been going into gun stores and demanding to see the 4473’s on file. Then scanning them all in, so they have digital copies. This is same as registration for any gun purchased since the 4473 went in. I think it was 1968.

[USNBandit]

Of course they delete data. They probably always delete the data detailing the data they were supposed to delete, but didn’t.

[Peet]

Does Pinochio have a wooden johnson?

...umicef. It looks like a umicorn but it aint no umicorn. Its a umiCEF its a man got a woodey johnson stickin up out here [hand at forehead] like dat. I'm serious man, tha's where the 'spression d*ckface and p*sshead come from. And dey need your money. Dey need your money desperately. To buy hats. So give to umicef."

Comedian Bob Nelson as "Fuhbaw player" doing a PSA

[JimRed]

At FR, you cannot post a thread about the towers and 911 unless it meets the government official story. Is that censorship?

Since I've seen some of the "Joooz did the towers", "inside demolition job" and "fire can't melt steel" craziness somewhere, and I seldom go elsewhere, I must have seen them here, no?

[Venturer]

One of the funniest comedy skits I ever saw.

You can find it on the Rodney Dangerfield You tube .

[MHGinTN]

Well, check my profile page and the link to my blogpage. The first essay when you open the page is the essay on 911. It is perhaps too sane for ... oh, never mind. The nation is under the spell of the information ranglers so anything rational is immediately stamp as crazy if it isn’t the official government line of the hour.