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To: muawiyah
"The Allied tanks were a stupendous success"

Really?

The Germans called the Sherman tank "the Ronson", because one hit and it would blow up and catch fire.

The mechanics of the Sherman were very good. But the tank was underarmored and undergunned especially against heavier German equipment.

Arguably the best tank of WW-2 was the Russian T-34, which was diesel, heavier gunned, very fast and was the first to make use of sloped armor, which greatly improved protection.

33 posted on 03/11/2013 9:37:29 AM PDT by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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To: Jimmy Valentine
you missed the point ~ the Allied tanks were among the armaments in the successful armies. The German tanks were among the armaments in the unsuccessful armies.

BTW, the Russians found success against the Germans ~ you did know that, right?

34 posted on 03/11/2013 9:42:08 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Jimmy Valentine

It turns out 10 Shermans will generally take out one superior German tank.

Our tanks were not qualitatively successful, in particular, but they were wildly successful quantitatively.

As the saying goes, “Quantity has a quality of its own.”


35 posted on 03/11/2013 11:34:47 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Jimmy Valentine

“Arguably the best tank of WW-2 was the Russian T-34, which was diesel, heavier gunned, very fast and was the first to make use of sloped armor, which greatly improved protection.”

The Soviets didn’t seem to think so, because they used the Sherman tanks to equip their elite Guards Tank Divivions.


36 posted on 03/11/2013 11:51:52 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: Jimmy Valentine

After the wet ammo storage system was introduced in the M4, the T-34 was actually MORE likely the burn than the Sherman. A Russian tankers who used both is the source of that statement.


40 posted on 03/11/2013 1:13:50 PM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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To: Jimmy Valentine
“The Allied tanks were a stupendous success”
Really?

“The Germans called the Sherman tank “the Ronson”, because one hit and it would blow up and catch fire.”

The anecdote misrepresents the larger truth. All medium tanks had a tendency to burn like a lighter when penetrated by the AP rounds of a heavy tank or another medium tank. The M4 Sherman was designed and built as a medium tank capable of defeating 1942 era medium tanks and anti-tank weapons. By the time the M$ was widely deployed in the ETO, Germany and the Soviet Union supplemented their tank forces with heavy tanks and larger caliber anti-tank weapons capable of defeating the M4 armor. Nevertheless, the M4 proved to be quite capable of matching the vast majority of threats it faced, particularly the most numerous German medium tanks, Panzerkampfwagon II/IV, and smaller caliber anti-tank weapons. Even the German heavy tanks proved vulnerable at the typical ranges actually fought in the tank against tank engagements. While there were some occasions where one Tiger tank knocked out nine M4 medium tanks in one engagement, there are also other engagements where the reverse situation occurred with the Shermans knocking out a succession of Tiger tanks. Due to the relative rarity of the German Tiger and Panther tanks versus the German medium tanks, the Shermans rarely engaged them in tank against tank battles. When they did find themselves in such engagements, the Shermans did reasonably well and the disparagement of their lesser guns, 75mm and 76mm high velocity, are not justified when seeing the actual numbers of engagements and tanks knocked out.

“The mechanics of the Sherman were very good. But the tank was underarmored and undergunned especially against heavier German equipment.”

The Shermans were never meant to enter such engagements, and when necessity required them to do so their results overall were fair to good. The heavier armament and armor versus the lesser numbers and lesser availability due to maintenance left the Sherman in control by virtue of numbers and by virtue of defeating the heavier armament in most engagemens..

Arguably the best tank of WW-2 was the Russian T-34, which was diesel, heavier gunned, very fast and was the first to make use of sloped armor, which greatly improved protection.

The T-34 tank had less armor than the Lend-Lease Soviet M-4/A2 Sherman tank, so the superior sloping of the glacis was necessary to give the T-34 slightly improved technical protection. Unfortunately, the T-34 theoretically better frontal protection did not translate into better protection in actual combat. When knocked out, the M-4 tank crew on average suffered one crewman killed, bu the T-34 crew experienced the opposite result with only one crewman surviving the knockout. This survivability improvement, reliability, simplified maintenance, tactical radio absent in the T-34, and many other attributes made the M4 a favorite among the soviet tank regiments.

49 posted on 03/11/2013 10:37:27 PM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: Jimmy Valentine
Arguably the best tank of WW-2 was the Russian T-34, which was diesel, heavier gunned, very fast and was the first to make use of sloped armor, which greatly improved protection.

Pound for pound, I'd take the Panzer V Ausf G with that high-velocity 75. Of course, your ten T-34s to my one Panther would leave me a burning wreck but I'd take a few of yours with me :)

The Panther had a direct influence in the designs of both the Soviet IS-2 and the American M26 Pershing and was used, in quantity, by the Soviets themselves when captured.

52 posted on 03/12/2013 10:14:44 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg ("Don't be afraid to see what you see." -- Ronald Reagan)
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