Westminster Dog Show 2013 - Night One

2/11/2013 | llevrok

[llevrok]

And here come the dogs !!!

[afraidfortherepublic]

She was from Canada. I don’t remember her dog either, but it might have been a Norwegian Elkhound.

How about the one who had a dog paw print tattoo on her leg?

[Darnright]

>The announcer just said “We don’t always breed dogs to do what they were intended to do. Now we breed them for temperament and as companions”.

Horse’s mouth.<

While specifically referring to Bulldogs. Not much bullbaiting goes on in the US.

Manchester terriers were ratters. Now we use D-Con.

The above doesn’t mean some breeds deserve extinction just because their jobs have ceased to exist.

[Ditter]

I spotted the tattoo before the announcers mentioned it. Now that is a dog lover! :)

[GSD Lover]

I’ll definitely try to get a glimpse of her.

Thanks for the heads up. :)

[dervish]

Plenty of stables still use ratters.

“The above doesn’t mean some breeds deserve extinction just because their jobs have ceased to exist.”

It also doesn’t mean they should drop the functionality. Form has no meaning without function. Who said anything about extinction?

[dervish]

“While specifically referring to Bulldogs. Not much bullbaiting goes on in the US.”

“Over 80% of Bulldog litters are delivered by Caesarean section because their characteristically large heads can become lodged in the mother’s birth canal. “

But keep on making a larger and larger head size part of the breed standard.

[freekitty]

You are welcome

[freekitty]

You are so right. I know of two right now who are breeding bad hipped dogs. The breeder sold to a woman for breeding purposes and told her not to worry when the test for hips came back bad. The breeder simply submitted another dogs hips. Amazing what these breeders will do.

That’s why I like my breeder. she knows her lines well as other lines. It takes years. She also knows the difference between inbreeding(mother to son) vs line breeding(aunt to nephew) etc. You have to be a very experienced breeder to do either. You usually do inbreeding to get a pretty close copy or type of your own champion lines at your kennels. Both can have bad consequences.

I would have the same problem with finding homes for puppies.

[afraidfortherepublic]

Who could miss it? It looked like a BEAR paw print!

[Salamander]

And Pugs and Pekes and most of the brachycephalic breeds who can barely breathe on their own.

Many breeds have to have “help” to even mate.

Tell me that’s not perverted.

If a dog breed can’t survive without human intervention, something is terribly wrong.

[Darnright]

>It also doesn’t mean they should drop the functionality. Form has no meaning without function. Who said anything about extinction?

How are you going to breed English bulldogs and keep the breed's ability to function as a bull-baiter without bull baiting???

So, in Dervish world, no bulldogs would be bred. You stop breeding all English bulldogs 7 years and voila, no more English Bulldogs. Extinction.

[Darnright]

>If a dog breed can’t survive without human intervention, something is terribly wrong.<

I hate to nitpick here, but NO breed of purebred dog would survive with no human intervention, unless you stuck a pack on an isolated island.

Purebreds exist due to human selective breeding, remember.

[Salamander]

You are nitpicking.

You know exactly what I mean in terms of biological viability.

A dog who cannot breathe or breed naturally is a freak and would not even survive as a “dog” without human intervention.

That people inflict these ‘desirable birth defects’ in the name of maintaining a “breed standard” upon dogs is a sin.

[Mr Rogers]

I think the point was that if a dog breed needs humans to help them have intercourse, then the 'breed standard' has gone way out of whack!

The best dog I've ever owned, as a non-rancher, was a Border Collie/German Shepherd mix. He didn't inherit any herding ability, but he got the best of the rest.

But the dog shows, like the halter world in horses, has exalted looks over function, with a result of impaired function. Since dogs are too close to too many hearts, look at this halter (show) horse:

Someone has forgotten what horses are bred to do. When humans breed ANYTHING for looks, they overdo it. We cannot resist fads and going way overboard. That is why breeding should focus on function, not form.

[Darnright]

>A dog who cannot breathe or breed naturally is a freak and would not even survive as a “dog” without human intervention.

That people inflict these ‘desirable birth defects’ in the name of maintaining a “breed standard” upon dogs is a sin.<

From a personal standpoint, I would not own a dog like that. How far do we take “biological viability”? My beloved Papillons wouldn’t last 5 minutes in the wild, yet they still breed and whelp (many times at least) naturally for a toy breed.

Being a conservative, I am big on personal freedom and the choice that it allows. People choose to breed Pekes and Bulldogs and if you begin trying to limit that freedom, you get into a Nannystate world.

The best thing would be for those involved with the breeds to try and turn the tide. It would be interesting to think what might happen if people who championed health and viability joined the parent clubs.

But, knowing human nature, I can predict that will be a difficult task without some sort of draconian, slippery slope law.

[Darnright]

>Since dogs are too close to too many hearts, look at this halter (show) horse:<

Ok, point taken. But I’d take that horse over those Arabian, deformed headed things any day.

Breeding animals is to a significant degree, market driven. If John Q Public didn’t snap up Bulldogs, or Pekes, or muscle bound Quarter Horses, people wouldn’t bother breeding them. If the consumer insisted on a dog or horse with more moderate physical characteristics, you’d see things change gradually, but change would indeed happen.

[Mr Rogers]

I might take it over a "sea horse" Arabian show horse:

but I'll keep my 15.3, non-show Arabian mare:

That is kind of my point. Humans seem to be unable to resist fads, so our show animals become divorced from the real world.

[the OlLine Rebel]

You mocked GS for being in the herding group. But that was their original purpose, and thus their placing. It’s not a matter of how good they are.

I’d bet you’ve never seen a GS herd, so your point is probably moot. Look it up. Indeed you’ll find more Germans who herd and as stated, there is still a herding certification in the SV.

But we largely agree I’m sure. Unfortunately it is not just the AKC which ruins dogs. It’s every organization. Germans also fell to the power clique and went down various wrong paths with the modern GS. For this as well as other reasons, next time I think I’m going to a farm or “backyard breeder” for a GS. That’s heresy in the dog world, but these people have gotten too big for their britches.

[the OlLine Rebel]

LOL I’m glad you bring up Arabians. I don’t know much about horses though I love them, but I was rather appalled at the KY Horse Park a few years ago. Love the park, but they happened to host an Arabian show that day. I could not believe how skinny and over fine the show colts were. I thought the young yearlings were awfully and strangely “suggestive” in their rump areas. Don’t know how to describe it, but it’s as if they were trying to breed for human porno butts. Very strange. Perhaps that’s because they were so skinny. Like Greyhounds are proportioned.

[Darnright]

A lot of the exaggeration in any pure breed comes from Man’s inherent urge to compete. If one German Shepherd is more “impressive” than average, many people will rush to breed to that one dog. Unfortunately, that dog just might be carrying a genetic time bomb, some sort of inherited disease. Then, the defects get salted throughout the gene pool and it will take years to clear it out. Didn’t this happen with the Martin brothers?