Posted on 02/11/2013 5:14:04 PM PST by llevrok
And here come the dogs !!!
“This was shot at an AKC herding trial. \ Looks pretty doggone functional to me.”
Nope. Not close.
I’m quite sure you are incorrect. Even when I knew more about the show world in the ‘80s I remember it being POINTED dogs. They did not have to be Ch. Otherwise, there would not be the full set of classes in the breed level, only a single class of all Ch.
At a local border collie trial, someone entered a cow dog. He used his cow herding moves and there were sheep EVERYWHERE. But is was fun to watch, and the borders got everyone back on track.
““Parent” clubs (specializing in one breed) are members of the AKC. THEY own and write the standard for that breed and THEY are responsible for protecting the breed, not AKC.”
Not with Border Collies. The AKC had one made up for them after the real parent club refused.
“In 1991, the AKC recognized the Australian Shepherd over the objections of the Australian Shepherd Club of America (ASCA), that breed’s registry and longtime parent club. Rumors flew that AKC was entering an expansionist phase and would soon recognize the Border Collie...
...In June of 1994 the AKC formally wrote all three Border Collie clubs, asking if they wished to pursue recognition and be designated the AKC parent club. BCSA and the Alliance said yes. USBCC continued to oppose AKC recognition, as did all three Border Collie registries, the United States Border Collie Handlers Association, all state and local Border Collie clubs, and an overwhelming number of Border Collie owners...
...In December 1994, at a meeting where the Border Collie was not even on its agenda, the AKC Board of Directors voted to recognize the Border Collie, to begin registering it in February 1995, and to begin conformation showing of Border Collies in October 1995. Although AKC had always maintained that it is the parent breed club, intimately familiar with its breed, that adopts the breed standard and sets the policies for its breed, on this occasion AKC did not designate a parent club for the Border Collie. AKC, which of course had no previous familiarity with Border Collies except for issuing them ILP numbers, itself adopted a breed standard that defines what a Border Collie should be and how it should look. AKC did not designate a parent club for the Border Collie until August 1996, when it finally chose the BCSA.”
You are quite ignorant. Why do you think it’s called SHEPHERD? It means sheep-herd. GS were bred from shepherding dogs and meant for that. Unfortunately very early Max saw the writing on the wall that rural aspects were passing away while getting more technological, so he found other work for his new dogs. Or rather, fortunately. Otherwise the breed would be a footnote rather than quickly the most popular dog in the world for the longest time.
“You are quite ignorant. Why do you think it’s called SHEPHERD? It means sheep-herd. GS were bred from shepherding dogs...”
OK. You are right. The dogs I see on ranches herding sheep and cattle are little, black & white German Shepherds. Because that is what GSDs are famous for...herding!
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Me thinks the AKC has brainwashed your noggin.
Oh good God. The parent club of ALL German SHEPHERDOM is the Verein fur Duetsche Schaferhunden (SV; Schafer is sheep), and still they are beholden to no all-breed club. It is German, not American. The American club came later 100 years ago, then AKC took it under its org.
I don’t care if you think GS can’t herd, they DID and they were meant for it. Sure as Bulldogs were meant for fighting bulls, but you won’t find them doing that at all, anymore, thank God.
BTW, the still-used title for SV herding/Germany is HGH - herdengebrauchshund. Herding.
Because you are expected to be classy.
Actually, handlers always dress nicely. I wish the rest of our dreggish society would dress as well.
And really, many women dress in good business attire, not cocktail dresses. They’re not all trying that.
If you haven’t been following, the border collie has become more hyper.
Yes, the GSD is good at herding.
Now, go study.
LOL
Thanks.
Well, ours is 10 and he still chases the ball; but, not for quite as long a time as he used to. He loves people; but, other dogs -— not so much.
I’ve never met a GSD who could herd worth a damn. That doesn’t make them bad dogs, but that is NOT what made them famous.
A rancher has a number of breeds he could turn to for herding cattle, but I’ve never met any who would start searching for a GSD.
And the AKC has done an excellent job of ruining the GSD in America. Unhappily, the AKC has demolished a lot of dog breeds...
“If you haven’t been following, the border collie has become more hyper.”
WORKING Border Collies have not. AKC Border Collies are, because they don’t know how to breed a Border Collie. That is because they breed for looks, not performance.
And no, GSDs are NOT good at herding. Anyone who claims they are isn’t living in the real world. Lots of breeds herd well, not just Border Collies - but no AKC breeds herd very well because that isn’t what AKC breeders breed FOR. When you breed for looks, you get...models. And models aren’t known for their brains, or for their herding ability.
>I’ve never met a GSD who could herd worth a damn. That doesn’t make them bad dogs, but that is NOT what made them famous.<
The German Shepherd Dog does have a very different herding style than does a border collie. That does NOT mean they are “bad” at herding. Technically, they are sheep TENDING dogs. In Germany, the shepherd’s dog not only drives his flock to the grazing area, it then works the boundaries the shepherd sets for grazing. The dog works the boundary constantly, and any sheep that sticks its nose over that invisible line gets a reminder to stay inside his appointed area. A German Shepherd Dog must be willing to “grip” a stubborn sheep, which would send Border Collie people for the smelling salts.
So, anyone who defines all herding dogs to the style exhibited to one single breed is near-sighted indeed.
The goofy commentators reminded me of the movie: Best In Show.
What a funny movie; one of my favorites...because it is pretty close to the truth!
>Not with Border Collies. The AKC had one made up for them after the real parent club refused.<
Sorry, but a group of Border Collie people approached and petitioned AKC to form a club. AKC did not wave a wand and “create” a club.
So the membership of one established club did not want to participate. Their choice, their loss.
At the time, AKC’s system was set up to have a breed looking for recognition enter the Miscellaneous group for a given period of time, then the breed would be fully recognized, and then would take its place in the appropriate group.
Border collie people had competed from the miscellaneous group for decades. They had no problem taking advantage of AKC obedience, tracking, herding and agility, but did not want to ever leave the miscellaneous class. Did AKC give them a nudge to act or get off the pot? From what I understand, yes they did. And, a group of people who were active in the breed made the move to step up to the plate. In no way could AKC have recognized the breed without those individuals, so to say the registry did so is dishonest.
Regardless of their origin somewhere back in time, NO ONE buys German Shepherds to work sheep and cattle in the US. NO rancher in the west says, “I need a good cattle dog. Time to call the AKC and find me a German Shepherd!”
Even with Border Collies, what passes for herding under the AKC is laughable. That is because the AKC is about LOOKS and MONEY, not FUNCTION or DOGS. In my lifetime, I’ve seen AKC registration largely ruin the Australian Shepherd. Few breeders still breed them for work, and the breed is a sad shell of what it once was 40 years ago.
Very few people have access to sheep and cattle to breed real herding dogs, which makes it almost impossible for a suburban or city person to breed good herd dogs. So they breed for looks, or for ‘dog sports, and destroy what took 100+ years of careful breeding to create.
Hunting dogs haven’t been ruined as bad, because more people have access to land for hunting. But if you want to buy a retriever, you still need to look separately for those bred for looks vs those bred for function - although some manage to breed for both.
The AKC has destroyed GSDs almost as well as they have destroyed the Australian Shepherd. They breed for fads, and for sloping backs, and a dog can be dumb as a sack of rocks and still win in the AKC. The intelligent, athletic dog of the 30s has been badly served by the AKC.
Oh...and Border Collies breeders will still breed for a dog that will bite, if need be. It disqualifies a dog in trials, but is a useful trait for working cattle.
>I’m quite sure you are incorrect. Even when I knew more about the show world in the ‘80s I remember it being POINTED dogs. They did not have to be Ch. Otherwise, there would not be the full set of classes in the breed level, only a single class of all Ch.<
20 years or more ago, WKC was changed to an all-champion show, due to space limitations. As I said, this is the first time in decades they re-opened the show to non-champions.
So, it was a real treat to watch the winner of the Herding group come up from the Bred-by Exhibitor class.
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