Cold Fusion Pioneer says LENR is not Fusion

Cold Fusion News ^ | Nov 20, 2012 | http://coldfusion3.com/

[Kevmo]

The Cold Fusion/LENR Ping List

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles

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[Kevmo]

The Cold Fusion/LENR Ping List

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles

[monocle]

The morning after Pons and Fleischmann made the evening news I remarked to several coworkers that calling the reaction cold fusion was a huge mistake because so many physicists were feeding at the government’s high temperature fusion research trough.

[dila813]

“Andrea Rossi’s recent claims ...”

There is no end to this laugh train....Kevmo, you aren’t done with this guy yet?

[Jack Hammer]

Never mind all that - the real question is, “Can you run a tricked-out DeLorean with it?”

Only being half facetious; anything that ameliorates our dependence on Arab oil - and most especially Arabs - would be a gift from on high.

[Wonder Warthog]

Kev:

Good article.

I am not quite half-way through an excellent book on CF:

"Excess Heat-Why Cold Fusion Research Prevailed" by Charles G. Beaudette.

Beaudette is a retired electrical engineer (former instrument engineer and company top manager) who attended one of the ICCF conferences, as he put it "on a whim". Being impressed by the quality of the data presented, he decided to investigate the science as a retirement hobby. Hence the book.

Unlike Storms book, which focuses on complete (but shallow) coverage of the entire available science of CF, Beaudette is more selective, focusing tightly on the key experiments, experimenters, and replications. He goes into much greater depth on each experiment and experimenter. The book is also much more readable by the "non-scientist", while still containing sufficient references to convince the scientifically oriented.

Highly recommended.

The skeptopaths will recognize themselves in the table on page 134.

[Pecos]

I saw a nice clean DeLorean a few months ago. If I owned one, I would think seriously of hot gluing a Mr. Fusion to the roof.

[muawiyah]

http://phys.org/news/2012-11-fundamental-electromagnetism.html Don’t forget that piece yesterday ~ sorta kinda makes a statement about ‘settled law’ ~ when it comes to the four fundamental forces ~ probably has relevance to whatever is going on in LENR

[muawiyah]

other than the fact color video will never be the same once they get this phenomenon corraled, this might explain excess heat ~ that is, heat beyond that predicted by the standard models and equations.

[Kevmo]

Yes, I thought that book was a good read also. The current state of the science of LENR is that the Pons Fleischmann Anomalous Heat Effect has been replicated and it is an established scientific fact. But it is not an established ENGINEERING field because the effect is difficult to generate and there is still some lingering stigma associated with the field. Just think of where computers would be right now if silicon transistors had a strong stigma associated with them in the early days. We would be marvelling at individual logic gate chips.

[Johnny B.]

Note that the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project reported a few days ago that they discovered a possible error in Celani's work that could explain most, if not all, of the "excess" heat:

As a preliminary result, it appears that this pressure related temperature change in Hydrogen could account for the vast majority of the demonstrated rise in power in Celani's graph above the 10 watt baseline that the run starts at.

Read the story here, along with lots of interesting comments pointing out how error-prone the methods they are using can be:

See http://www.quantumheat.org/index.php/follow/163-a-partial-explaination for the details.

[PapaBear3625]

That’s the big problem with cold fusion/LENR: you need to be able to consistently demonstrate a long-running reaction which generates energy well in excess of any possible chemical reaction.

[Wonder Warthog]

"That’s the big problem with cold fusion/LENR: you need to be able to consistently demonstrate a long-running reaction which generates energy well in excess of any possible chemical reaction."

Been done, multiple times with replications galore. All ignored by the skeptopaths. Read Beaudette's book. Documented in depth there.

[djf]

I simply do not understand why the debate still rages.

A simple before/after spectrographic profile should answer the question once and for all.

It’s not rocket science.
Well, almost.

[Johnny B.]

You'll notice that one of the "True Believers" is lying about the Fleischmann Memorial Project right here. He claims:

The current state of the science of LENR is that the Pons Fleischmann Anomalous Heat Effect has been replicated and it is an established scientific fact.

Yet he ignores the actual report from the web site that they appear to have discovered an error that could explain the "excess" heat.

Meanwhile, we're still waiting for someone, anyone, to present credible evidence for a LENR device that can brew a cup of tea. So far, no one has even come close.

[Wonder Warthog]

"Yet he ignores the actual report from the web site that they appear to have discovered an error that could explain the "excess" heat.

What makes you think that the MFMP experiment is the proof that Kevmo is referring to?? There are literally dozens of replications in refereed papers. The MFMP guys "think" they "may" have discovered an error. But their cell is not identical to Celani's, and in fact they know that the glass work of the seal on their cell was flawed as it came from the glass shop (scratched and leaked). They attempted a polish to smooth it themselves, but this "error" may well be due to their cell's known flaw.

And since they are in regular communication with Celani, the error will indoubtedly either be fixed, or the source clarified.

"Meanwhile, we're still waiting for someone, anyone, to present credible evidence for a LENR device that can brew a cup of tea. So far, no one has even come close.

Again....been done. The Beaudette book explains things in sufficient simplicity that even a scientific illiterate like youself can understand.

[Wonder Warthog]

"A simple before/after spectrographic profile should answer the question once and for all."

Really?? And what sort of spectrography would that be?? There are several dozen sorts of spectroscopy available. (note...I am a spectrographer by original training, so am familiar with most of them).

[Kevmo]

A multibillion $ company specializing in test & measurement recently concluded it is not chemical in origin. They have no need to risk their business & reputation and stick their neck out for a simple chemical mistake. National Instruments recently concluded that with so much evidence of anomalous heat generation... http://www.22passi.it/downloads/eu_brussels_june_20_2012_concezzi.pdf Conclusion • There is an unknown physical event and there is a need of better measurements and control tools. NI is playing a role in accelerating innovation and discovery.

[Kevmo]

LENR seems to have its own set of Anti-Science Truthers. In the last couple of years, there has been quite a bit of activity in the area of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions. Originally, the field was called Cold Fusion in 1989 when Pons & Fleischmann announced their findings prematurely. They were ridiculed and blacklisted by scientists who could have lost funding for their nuclear projects in 1989, even though some of their findings were soon replicated.. You can get the story here:

http://lenr-canr.org/wordpress/?page_id=263


In fact, the only verified instance of Fraud in LENR was when MIT scientists fudged their results to show a negative result rather than the positive one the data supports.

The ongoing story here on Free Republic has been one where the detractors use ridicule, falsehoods, false argumentation, classic fallacies, misdirection, and all manner of unscientific and ugly behavior other than to discuss the science behind the claims. In order to fight fire with fire, I started calling these pathological skeptics “seagulls” but the moderator told me not to do that. So the skeptopaths are allowed certain tactics on FR but the LENR afficianados are not. It turns out that one of the moderators resigned, and his scientific background was lacking in terms of being able to properly absorb this material. At one time he even put it on the same level as BigFoot without backing it up when confronted:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/2917406/posts?page=3976#3976


And even though the Anomalous Heat Effect has been replicated hundreds of times by more than a thousand scientists, even in mainstream peer-reviewed journals.

https://springerlink3.metapress.com/content/8k5n17605m135n22/resource-secured/?target=fulltext.pdf&sid=xwvgza45j4sqpe3wceul4dv2&sh=www.springerlink.com
.
Jing-tang He
• Nuclear fusion inside condense matters
• Frontiers of Physics in China
Volume 2, Number 1, 96-102, DOI: 10.1007/s11467-007-0005-8
This article describes in detail the nuclear fusion inside condense matters—the Fleischmann-Pons effect, the reproducibility of cold fusions, self-consistency of cold fusions and the possible applications
.
Note that Jing-tang He found there were 14,700 replications of the Pons Fleischmann Anomalous Heat Effect. http://www.boliven.com/publication/10.1007~s11467-007-0005-8?q=(%22David%20J.%20Nagel%22)

.
National Instruments is a multibillion dollar corporation that does not need to stick its neck out for “bigfoot stories”. After noting more than 150 replications, they recently concluded that with so much evidence of anomalous heat generation...
http://www.22passi.it/downloads/eu_brussels_june_20_2012_concezzi.pdf
Conclusion
• There is an unknown physical event and there is a need of better measurements and control tools. NI is playing a role in accelerating innovation and discovery.



The current state of the science of LENR is that the Pons Fleischmann Anomalous Heat Effect has been replicated and it is an established scientific fact. But it is not an established ENGINEERING field because the effect is difficult to generate and there is still some lingering stigma associated with the field. The level of pathological resistance this field receives is unconscionable for those of us who seek scientific answers and engineering solutions.

If you find that the thread leads to this post it is because I no longer respond to the seagulls, I send all inquiries to this post so that crickets are not generated, nor is there an impression left that they have an objection worth pursuing. If lurkers feel the objection is worth pursuing, they can repost the same question.
To learn more about LENR, I recommend the LENR-CANR website
http://lenr-canr.org/

[Kevmo]

What makes you think that the MFMP experiment is the proof that Kevmo is referring to??
***Typical skeptopath. Quick to accuse even fellow freepers of lying, won’t read the information you present.