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To: Zionist Conspirator

I think you raise some excellent questions. I actually believe that one of the reasons that the Democratic Party power structure fell in line so quickly behind Barack Obama in the primary against Hillary Clinton was to head off any potential split between black Americans and the Party over any number of growing conflicts, including between black parents and teacher’s unions, black job seekers and global warming extremists, and most maybe most importantly, black church-goers and gay activists.

The election of Barack Obama quashed any chance that any of those conflicts would have any effect in the big picture any time soon. The bond between blacks and the Democratic Party had been welded even further, and there’s very little that the Party could do platform and policy wise that would significantly change that, short of advocating a return to slavery.

So the simple answer to your question of how it is that blacks manage to reconcile very conservative religious beliefs and very liberal politics is race: the great majority of blacks vote on the basis of race, and they perceive that the Democratic Party is for their race, while the Republican Party is against it. It’s really as simple as that. There is a small minority (probably 10-20%) that actually votes based on the actual platforms and agendas of the two parties, but even if half of them agree and vote with the Republican Party, that still leaves just a 5-10% share of the total, which is about what the GOP has gotten over the last several cycles.

Unfortunately, all of the philosophical contradictions that you point out matter not in the least to the average black person who has been taught and strongly believes in one simple rule of politics: Democrats like black people, and Republicans don’t. It’s not rational, or principled, and I’d certainly argue that it’s not a wise posture to adopt, and I’d also argue that it’s at odds with history, and with the facts on the ground, but again, none of that matters either. People believe this to be so, so for all intents and purposes, it is so.

I do believe that blacks by and large are social conservatives. They do go to church, and they do hear conservative religious messages, and they do believe them. But the fact of their racial identity is more important in terms of how they behave politically.

I will confess that in my email to my father in law, I may have downplayed the importance of social issues more so than my actual feelings. This is because all leftists believe very strongly in the argument that Republicans use social issues to convince ignorant poor white people to “vote against their own interests” in supporting the GOP. It strikes at the core of their belief system to point out the obvious fact that it was Democrats who used social issues to distract voters from economic issues in this election.

I do have mixed feelings, however, on social issues as a basis for voting. If there’s a general principle that I subscribe to, it’s that consenting adults should be able to do what they want in a free country so long as it doesn’t directly affect anyone else, but once their “liberties” begin to impact upon the life or liberty of others, there’s a role for the state to step in. With gay marriage you have two consenting adults, and their getting married does not directly affect anyone else. With abortion, you have an innocent victim who cannot defend or speak for itself. They may be equally abhorrent in the eyes of the Church, but in the view of government and morality, I would look at them differently.

I do believe in religious freedom, however, including the right not be forced to provide contraceptives, abortions, gay adoptions, etc., and so there’s another place that I would draw a line that would put me on the side of social conservatives. But for me personally, I just don’t really care what people do with each other sexually so long as it doesn’t affect me personally, and if they want to consummate that activity in state-recognized marriage, again, it doesn’t affect me. In fact, I’d really prefer not to even think about it, to the extent that it involves things that are sexually repulsive to me, and so elevating it as a political issue . . . um, no.

But no I don’t wish for social conservatives to be expelled from the GOP. With the exception of abortion and religious freedom, as stated above, I’d probably be comfortable with the “truce” suggested by Mitch Daniels, including a “punt” on most issues back to the states under principles of federalism. I think the best solution might ultimately be for us to celebrate instead of fight against the fact that federalism allows for there to be some places with very strict social mores encoded into local and state laws, and other places that are far more liberal.

I’m not sure that I would support a socially conservative economically liberal party. I think that combination has traditionally been organized under the banner of “Populism”, which I have a couple of problems with: as noted above, I have a libertarian streak that competes with my social conservatism, and while I believe that government should provide a safety net, I also believe that freer markets = greater total prosperity, which benefits everyone. Again, I’d probably vote for a more federalist approach, where some states would be heavily regulated with generous social programs, other states more free, and then let people “vote with their feet” for what they prefer.


191 posted on 12/05/2012 12:29:58 PM PST by Behind the Blue Wall
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To: Behind the Blue Wall
Thank you for your very frank reply to my questions and my (perhaps at times hostilely-worded) post.

I am not that sure if Blacks hear conservative messages at church. Certainly many Baptist and Pentecostal pastors preach the straight Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton line. It probably goes all the way back to Martin Luther King Jr., who was not an orthodox chrstian but a liberal Protestant who accepted radical higher critical German "theology" and rejected the traditional supernatural chrstian dogmas. Just how far have those (again European) patterns of thinking seeped into the general population of Aframerica?

I certainly don't think there are many Biblical fundamentalists in the NAACP or the historically Black colleges.

192 posted on 12/05/2012 1:00:13 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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