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To: allmendream

There are only two classes of “citizens” under the Constitution, a “natural born Citizen” and a “citizen of the United States.” Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution of the United States provides: “No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution shall be eligible to the Office of President.” With “citizen of the United States” having long expired as a permissible national character for presidential eligibility, the only focus when determining presidential eligibility is “natural born Citizen,” not “citizen of the United States.”

The Constitution at Article V calls for any changes to the Constitution to be made by constitutional amendment which requires a prescribed procedure to accomplish. We do not amend the Constitution and the “natural born Citizen” clause by confirming or amending through Congressional Acts the class of persons who may become “citizens of the United States” either at birth or after birth. Nor did Congress do so through the Fourteenth Amendment which only defines refers to and defines a “citizen of the United States” and not a “natural born Citizen.” Again, who our nation decides to make a “citizen of the United States,” either at birth or after birth, never has nor does it amend the meaning of an Article II “natural born Citizen” which “[a]t common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar” were “all children, born in a country, of parents who were its citizens.” Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162, 167-68 (1875); U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 679-80 (1898) (citing and quoting Minor).


70 posted on 11/20/2012 8:49:09 AM PST by Puzo1 (Ask the Right Questions to Get the Right Answers)
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To: Puzo1

There were three at the time the Constitution was written, now there are two. Natural born or naturalized. Either one is born with natural allegiance or one must be naturalized into that state of natural allegiance.

Of the two remaining classes of citizens only naturalized citizens are, via the nature of their citizenship, not eligible for the Presidency.

So all you need to do is convince people that people who are born citizens are somehow naturalized, despite every U.S. law saying “born or naturalized” as a citizen, and not one saying “born and thus naturalized” or “naturalized at birth”.

It is a Sisyphean fools task - but no doubt you are up to the challenge!


73 posted on 11/20/2012 8:57:16 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: Puzo1
English law, which was the law the founders were most familiar with - and the law which many of them were trained in - had no such requirement as you outlined to be born a “natural born subject” of England.

Duke Wellington pointed out that he was not Irish, despite being born in Ireland - by saying that ‘being born in a stable doesn't make one a horse’. Via English law he was correct. Birth place was not an absolute requirement to being a natural born subject of England.

As the US case Wong Kim Ark points out - those born in England of alien parents were natural born subjects of England. Thus parentage was not an absolute requirement to being a natural born subject of England.

So you are reduced now to making the argument that the founders were more familiar with Vattel than they were with English law? Another fools errand - no doubt you are up to the challenge!

90 posted on 11/20/2012 10:38:31 AM PST by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: Puzo1
I believe that "Natural born Citizen" was defined in the Preamble of the Constitution to be the Posterity of We the People.

We the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union... and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

It's clear that "natural born" are the posterity of We the People, for whom the Constitution was ordained and established to secure.

The posterity of We the People are the citizen children of citizen parents.

-PJ

263 posted on 11/23/2012 4:14:12 PM PST by Political Junkie Too (If you are the Posterity of We the People, then you are a Natural Born Citizen.)
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