Posted on 11/13/2012 9:37:33 AM PST by umpqua
We here at RedState are American citizens. We have no plans to secede from the union. If you do, good luck with that, but this is not the place for you.
(Excerpt) Read more at redstate.com ...
Indeed we are. A DOJ whistle blower’s site outed one on here and he was shut down the next day. Hasn’t posted for two years. He (the DOJ whistle blower) is either in hiding, jail or worse.
The fact that Erickson brought up Grant and Sherman and the old Confederacy is kind of proof that he is trying too hard to appease the liberals/RINO’s. People are talking about seceding but not because they want to bring back the Old Confederacy and slavery. They are talking about it so we can have a country based on freedom again. What is wrong with that? It might be loopy but there is nothing immoral or wrong about it.
I lost a lot of respect for Erickson when he didn’t endorse anyone in the primaries. He kept just complaining about all the candidates and in the end did nothing to help the situation. Maybe if he endorsed a real conservative, the primaries would have ended differently.
I visited his site years ago. It’s like Polutico V 2.0. When you get hired by CNN as the ‘token conservative’, you lose street cred amongst Freepers.
Blacks (and Hispanics) are socially conservative on a lot of issues, unfortunately they care about getting free stuff and are attracted to the Democrat "identity politics" message a whole lot more than the abortion issue.
For many that are nominally pro-life, the abortion issue simply takes a back seat to other policies. The younger generations seem to be far more libertine as well and don't appear to care much about this issue. Once the Republican party decides it can't win by focusing on traditional value voters, they are probably going to begin de-emphasizing abortion, gay marriage, etc, and focus more on economic matters.
I’m going to need more convincing. Here’s why:
Sucession is essentially “giving up.” Sucession is defeatist. I acknowldedge that it is represents the end of “The Great Experiment.” I am also the most patriotic person I know. I am love this country, the heritage, the history and the values on which it was founded. Millions of brave souls have sacrificed with their lives to uphold those American Values. They were unique values then as they are today when you brush the dust off of what we originally stood for. The defence of individual liberty and freedom from tyranical government is what our founders stood for. It’s what I hold most dear and what I stand for today. I believe in the American Spirit of the hard working and innovative American Citizen to use his/her work ethic, intelligence, talent and honor to make a nice living for himself and those around him/her.
I also believe we America has reached the tipping point which very well may prohibit the return to the values and governance that our founders originally established. When more than 50% of the nation is more worried about what the government can or might take away from them, then 50% will always vote their own best interest. We don’t feed bears in Yellowstone because we know that it causes dependence and that is bad for them. If they stop foraging and teaching their offspring how to survive, we must feed them and the generations of bears that follow.
We are generations into the dependency/nanny state that we have voted for. We are Europe now. America voted for more stuff out of fear of having stuff taken away or reduced. I don’t see how you educate the population about what America is supposed to be and the correct role of the Federal Government convincingly enough to change their lifestyles. Our education system is teaching and encouraging dependency while rewriting American history to water down or all together avoid what was once a proud American Culture of exceptionalism. The individual has been been relugated to a simple and unimportant cog in the progressive wheel.
Our nation, by this vote, accepts mediocrity and is against individual greatness, prosperity, innovation and wealth. I have lost faith that America will ever reverse this course now as we are on the downhill slide now. It will become easier and easier for liberals to win elections as nothing is sacred with regards to our constitution. The checks and balances of governance outlined in our constitution are now corrupted and precedence is being established that makes nothing “unconstitutional.” The people have given enough power to our government that they no longer have the power to change it idealistically.
We are a nanny state now. I would support legal sucession until someone can convince me that the American Voters have the will to reverse this course we are on. I understand the consequences and the ramifications of my position.
But I have lost faith that America will be able to return to the greatness we once knew. I do not believe we will ever see real unemployment back down around 6%. The opportunities in America for individuals to “build great things” is so diminished as to thwart the motivation to invest the effort.
I stand willing to reconsider and want to believe otherwise. My heart aches when I think of my children’s future. I am crushed at all the sacrifice spent by our ancestors to build and for a brief time sustain America as the world’s lone Superpower. America’s cause has been noble if not sometimes tainted by poor execution (vietnam, Korea, etc.) I want to believe our future is bright and our best years are still ahead of us. I want to maintain that image of America as the Shining City on the Hill.
I just don’t see the big picture that gets America back to greatness.
Change my mind, please.
Erick is pretty much one of us. He was a strong ‘Anybody but Romney’ for all the reasons we had. He was a major backer of Perry’s campaign, for good or bad. IMO, Perry was the only realistic alternative in that field, but he crashed and burned real hard.
I do not always agree with Erickson, but I don’t dismiss him. He has the benefit of political management, so he’s not one of these slew of ‘experts’ on blogs serving both sides of the date filled with amateurs. He’s got some good bloggers on his site.
I think he wants to keep his page out of the secession discussion for two reasons: He saw the impending loss in the week ahead of the election and made the statement that ‘life goes on’ and family and friends are what is important; secondly, he doesn’t want his site filled with secession talk because it is largely bluster that only reflects bad on our side. Unless acts are truly taken that lead to secession, beyond bad legislation, public talk of the issues does little to help us.
First, we are not anywhere near going to mass death in chains.
Second, there is not going to be succession. It just isn't going to happen. That is just fantasy. Is it fun to dream that the producers/makers break away and leave the dependent classes to collapse? Sure. Is there any chance at all of that happening? Nope.
Erick is right to keep the discussion on his site sane and grounded in the real world. We did not lose the election because of fraud. Birtherism will never amount to anything. We are not going to break away from the Republic. These things are all silly and don't warrant serious discussion.
I’ll accept your reasoning for Erick’s position per post #26. I see his business logic. I have never been to Red State without being linked to a specific article. I’ve certainly never posted there.
I get it. He wants to maintain a product image that does not fall into a “fringe” category.
Erick is right. You can either run away, or throw up the Gadsden and fight like a patriot.
Yes I mentioned before the election if Baraq won, the main discussion on FR would be “bolt or revolt?”
The History of Marxist regimes in the world make your statement more than just silly - but woeful and willful ignorance of what such regimes do to their own people WITHOUT exception.
Death panels anyone? That's just a start. We're a hell of a lot closer to history repeating than most are even willing to allow themselves to consider.
Second, there is not going to be succession. It just isn't going to happen. That is just fantasy. Is it fun to dream that the producers/makers break away and leave the dependent classes to collapse? Sure. Is there any chance at all of that happening? Nope.
Liberty has no chance of surviving in this land then. None. We go to our indentured servitude and deaths with nary even a whimper, proving liberty never had a chance in the hands of this generation to begin with.
We did not lose the election because of fraud.
Right. And Obama is a great American and a staunch Christian too. The Cook County chicanery I am familiar with that was self-evident in this election was just a figment of our imaginations. Right?
Do you have ANY understanding of the history of Marxist regimes at all? Or do you assume because a Marxist regime is in power in the old US of A, that the history of genocide and slavery in Marxist regimes cannot happen here?
These things are all silly and don't warrant serious discussion.
The Northern elitists in the 1860's said the exact same thing about the South at one time too.
If anyone loves liberty, then separation, defiance, non-comliance and eventually fighting for what remains of it because you refuse to comply and are resisting tyranny - is the only option we have left. The ballot box has failed and has been co-opted by Marxists.
If that is silly to you, and not worth discussing - then I think that explains how and why we lost our freedom and Republic better than anything else aside from a lukewarm Christian church.
Yes, as a matter fact I do. I studied them for years. I am familiar with pretty much ALL the Marxist regimes the world has ever known. I also studied the various Marxist movements from the old FMLN in El Salvador during the 80's, to the Shining Path in Peru, to the various Communist puppets in the Eastern Bloc, etc.
Or do you assume because a Marxist regime is in power in the old US of A, that the history of genocide and slavery in Marxist regimes cannot happen here?
First, what is in power here in the USA currently is not a Marxist regime. When you say stuff like that you just sound ridiculous - like the boy who cried wolf. Obama and his gaggle of libtards are not hardline communists and have no dreams of the government taking over all, or even most, private business. Hussein and his crowd are Western quasi democratic socialists - Statists is a good word for them (credit Levin). Obama envisions a country much along the lines of a European social welfare state - something more along the lines of a 50/50 state/private power structure.
Could the US one day fall to a far left, truly Marxist type regime? It is possible, but it would not be a direct descendent of the incompetent boob currently in the White House. Something like that is more likely to come out of an economic collapse. The radically far left or far right would most likely come to power in the event our house of cards comes tumbling down. Is Obama's socialistic policies contributing to that possibility? Yes. Are we a hard left Marxist state right now? Certainly not.
Seems to me that conservatives should at least be considering moving themselves and their businesses out of blue states. Just in case were are left with no other options but to secede. We definitely want to be somewhere there is safety.
Redstate bans ‘birthers’ from day 1.
Now they call themselves ‘Americans’ shunning those who want to exercise their constitutional rights to secede?
Redstates, some Americans! First they refuse to uphold Constitution article 2, now they side with the usurper, anti-American obama who occupies the oval office illegally and who sends his criminal voters to steal another election!
Redstat, no better than the lamestream media! At least the lamestream are honest in what they try to do. Redstate is even more hypocritical than the usurper they aid and abett!
What do you think happened at the beginning when the revolutionary fought their own country, gave up their British citizenship and found this Constitutional
Republic ? -
they seceded!!!
If they had thought the way many are thinking now, there would have been no USA!
Then you are one.
You’re a blue copy of an extreme leftist I know, who never tires of calling Obama a centrist and a moderate.
Right. The Devil does not exist argument eh?
Obama isn't what we see him as?
Obama and his cabal have no desire to take over businesses right?
No desire to take over every individual life in the country right?
What do you think ObamaCare was?
It is clear you do not understand this enemy, who or what Obama is, and who empowers and enables him. You think just like the GOP-e and the Ruling class hacks in DeeCee that think the same way you and Boehner do about him and the Marxist cabal now running the show.
To equate him with a simple incompetent garden-variety Euro-Socialist is akin to blacks trying to convince the rest of the faith that Obama really is a Christian, or the peacenik morons who lecture us about the fact Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance.
Maybe next you'll try to convince us that Obama is a neo-Conservative?
Obama is a HARD MARXIST period. Ayers, Soros, Marshall-Davis and the litany of Marxists Obama has been groomed by is common knowledge by anyone studying his hidden past.
To be blunt and plain - and I can care less if you think it's silly or ridiculous - history teaches we are past the point of resolving differences with the corrupted institutions our Founders set in place. We have one option left to us - and being able to use that morally requires we secede, refuse to comply and resist this Marxist tyranny, and when they make that last mistake - we are justified in defending ourselves from the imposition of their godless will upon us. If you cannot see what this Marxist regime is and what they are doing - then you are willfully blind and your fate is sealed in chains anyway.
The question is, how many people will you lull to sleep and complacency before the real purge and genocide of this regime begins?
By the way, Obama is a pansy compared to a true Marxist. What Hussein and his bootlickers are pushing for is a wussy ass Western European social welfare state. The road that will take them down left unhindered would probably result in the nationalization of some utilities, but the private business would still by the backbone of the economy much like it is in Scandinavia. Now I think that is the road to ruin, but nothing will dissuade "progressives" like Obama that their approach is doomed.
We have one option left to us - and being able to use that morally requires we secede, refuse to comply and resist this Marxist tyranny...
Sorry pal, you sound......deranged. Oh, I don't think the path we are on ends well. I think it leads to Greece, with perhaps a pitstop in California. But there is no appetite for succession - and any politician or political movement that associates itself with such nonsense is finished.
We are not the majority at this moment. There is no silent majority simmering just beneath the surface ready to re-institute traditional values and conservative principles. No, we are a celebrity crazed, realityTV obsessed nation that has bought into what Obama and the left is selling. If there is a silent majority, it is probably all the additional uber low information voters the Democrats didn't manage to drag out to the polls during early voting.
No, we are going to have to make a conservative stand, make sure the public knows what we stand for, and be ready to pick up the pieces. The time for fighting will be only if real Marxists try to seize power when our economic house of cards falls. The dependent classes will not want to accept that the gravy train is over, so that is when the real danger arrives. But that is down the road and only one of many possible scenarios. Ideally we make our stand for conservative principles and win democratically when things go to heck in a hand basket.
You have no clue what time it is.
I guess that is to be expected from someone who just told us that Obama is not interested in taking over business in the country or regulating our very lives, down to the food we eat.
If defense of liberty in the face of Marxist subterfuge is ridiculous - you are not anyone I would consider to be 'conservative' in the first place. You sound more like a Ruling Class Establishment type like Boehner to me, hopes springs eternal that the crocodile will eat you last.
By the way, Obama is a pansy compared to a true Marxist. What Hussein and his bootlickers are pushing for is a wussy ass Western European social welfare state. The road that will take them down left unhindered would probably result in the nationalization of some utilities, but the private business would still by the backbone of the economy much like it is in Scandinavia. Now I think that is the road to ruin, but nothing will dissuade "progressives" like Obama that their approach is doomed.
You have no clue what you are talking about - except a wistful hope in a benign tyranny you hope we can endure without too much personal pain.
Sorry pal, you sound......deranged.
Yeah... we Bitter Clinger Tea bagger types are certainly deranged in the eyes of the Ruling Class Establishment GOP too. At least you've revealed what side of the fence you are on. Just sitting and slaving under the rule of Obama and if collapse and ruin occurs and only then if Marxists try to take control do we fight????
May your chains rest lightly pal. Hope those palms taste good too. I certainly will not remember your kind.
You don't sound like you know what you are talking about. You clearly do not know what a real Marxist regime looks like, yet you pretend to be learned on the subject. You come on to internet forums and talk a big game of succession, but you aren't going to do squat - nothing, nada, zero. You aren't impressing me or anyone else with your online bravado, you are not going to rebelling against the government and we all know it.
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