Posted on 10/18/2012 4:49:08 AM PDT by Dusty Road
Texas now lets you use permited suppressors for hunting, I see tons of people building off the AR platforms using low velocity rounds designed for suppressors. My question is why wouldn't the little 30 Carbine work just as well? With heavier bullets the velocities should be low enough to work well with the suppressor.
Sorry I said permit, it’s actually a one time 200 dollar tax stamp.
This thread is useless without videos.
Sub sonic bullet speed is the limiting factor with a suppressor. If all bullets have the same speed limit then the heaviest one is going to make the most energy. Is a .30 Carbine even capable of pushing a heavy enough projectile to the threshold of the speed of sound and even if it could would it even be able to stabilize the bullet with it’s slow twist rate?
I’ve played with the 30 Carbine allot, used to use it in 100 yard offhand pistol matches, these were steel plates. I shot it in a 14 inch Contender with a little bit of freebore so I could shoot 150 grain spitzers. I also carry an old 3 screw Ruger Blackhawk on the ranch every day in the same caliber, my handloads using 85 grain bullets gets real close to 2000 fps from a 7 1/2 inch barrel. I would think properly loaded 150’s or 165’s should keep the velocity down to sub sonic levels yet still keep the ft-lbs at or around factory levels for the standard 110 grain. Maybe even a little more.
True that subsonic is required if you are wanting to truly silence the gun.
However, if you only want to greatly suppress the noise, it isn’t required to go subsonic.
I’ve shot standard .22LR and 9x19 ammo through a suppressed Ruger 45/22 and MP5 respectively. Interestingly, the MP5 was even quieter than the 45/22. Neither produced a sharp crack from the bullet.
Barrel twist would be the problem, as you noted. While it’s simple to swap barrels on some rifles, it’s not on a .30 caliber carbine. At least, I don’t think it is. That’s one reason ARs are so popular: swapping uppers is easy, and each upper doesn’t count as a separate firearm.
Alternatively, in a .30 carbine, if a standard 110 gr was downloaded to subsonic, it might not do much damage to feral hogs. That would be a pretty lame load.
One of the subsonic .50 caliber uppers would be great on hogs. Or just don’t bother with going subsonic. High velocity rifles suppress very effectively, and sonic crack is no big deal. Hogs don’t know from sonic crack. They alert when brother hogs start getting shot anyway.
I was just at an event with suppressed rifles up to .338 LM. Amazingly quiet, with amazingly small cans. Suppressed .308 sounds like an air rifle.
I have experience with both of which you describe. We shot suppressed and standard rounds through both. With the sub-sonics in the 22 the action made more noice that the round did. The MP5 was a suppressed full auto, shot that one at the SO’s range in Sand Diego CA. You could cut one ragged hole with that one.
My biggest concern is the magazine and the set back needed for the longer bullets. Using 30 call bullets designed for tubular mags may help there.
San Diego
There has been a fair bit of work on this that has determined that the case volume of the .30 carbine is not large enough to support the large projectiles necessary for subsonic velocities.
SSK Industries and the .300 Whisper are good for this, as is the relatively recent .300 AAC BLK (designed primarily for ar15s so the same magazines can be used).
A subsonic 150gr projectile out of a m1 carbine would be the ballistic equivalent of a 9mm, for which a lot more versatility exists in the form of loads, projectiles, and firearms.
Sonic crack is a funny thing. The shooter of a suppressed supersonic round doesn’t hear it at all. If you are mid-range, you hear a snap but it gives you no clue about the origin of the bullet. If anything, it will point you in a false direction as to the location of the shooter. And if you are the one getting shot, sonic crack will be the least of your problems, and won’t help you or anybody else find the shooter. Today, most special ops groups and “enthusiasts” just put cans on supersonic rifles and don’t worry about the crack. The folks getting shot, know they were shot, as do their buddies. Sonic crack doesn’t give anything else away.
The main purpose of suppressed weapons by special ops units is to not alert a quick reaction force that may be a mile or so away. Folks getting shot, know they are getting shot, suppressed or not! And sonic crack doesn’t carry far, no more than a .22LR, certainly. The idea is to not alert the QRF with loud rifle muzzle blasts. Suppressed supersonic rounds work for that goal.
Barrel twist seems to be a problem in some of the AR platforms, I’m seeing several complaint from those shooting 300 Blackouts about stabilizing the heavier rounds.
The twist has to be just right. You can get an aftermarket barrel for a Ruger 10/22 with a faster twist to use the 60gr subsonics. It comes with a 1/2”-28 thread on the end for a can. Scope the rifle, obviously, and you have a nice little quiet varmint rifle that is totally silent. The trajectory is a rainbow, so ranging is critical past 100 yards, but it works. Just makes a little “pft” sound. The bolt cycling is louder.
To be fair, you have to submit yourself to background checks and government approval. So, in essence, it really is a permit.
A surpressor will significantly reduce the sound of a supersonic round, but it won’t be silent. It will be difficult to hand load a subsonic round that will stabilize, however it is possible gradually reduce the powder load and try a variety of bullets to maintain accuracy at certain distances while reducing overall volume. There will also be a point where you may have a failure to eject with a lighter load. I’d start by seeing how happy you are with a surpressor with regular loads and if that is not acceptable, try to improve things by balancing distance and accuracy while reducing the load.
Funny you bring up hogs because thats exactly what I had in mind.
More importantly, is that reduced-velocity bellet going to have the energy to kill what you’re hunting? I wouldn’t bet on an underpowered round when hunting hogs.
My mistake.
I read your post with my retarded hat on and you did stipulate the heavier/longer bullet.
Please ignore my retardations.
Yea not much different than a CCW, plus the Sheriff has to sign off also.
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