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To: fso301

[1] MacArthur did use the third person describing himself.
[2] First, Patton was a subordinate himself. Bradley and Monty commanded the Army Groups. And quite a lot of people knew who Hodges, Gerow, Collin, and Creighton Abrams were.
[3] Compared to the December 7th-8th f*uck up, the screw ups at Bataan, the New Guinea campaign, Leyte [invaded for airfields that couldn’t be built because of the soil], and the almost wholely unneeded Southern Pacific campaign, Baum’s not much. As for the Battle of the Bulge, blame for that rests principally on Ike [unfamiliar with the sector, not convinced by junior G-2s and his J-2 that something was up]. Compare it to the run up to Kasserine.

And as for Monty, he’s the nearest thing to MacArthur there is. And I DESPIUSE Bernard Law Montgomery.


19 posted on 03/21/2012 10:26:52 AM PDT by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: PzLdr

And the Germans had Erwin Rommel, “the Desert Fox.” How much of his mystique was played up by Goebbels, and how much the Field Marshal played it up himself, is open to conjecture.

Had Rommel stayed at 7th Panzer Division and been sent to the Eastern Front, he would have been just another competent panzer commander swallowed up in the vast expanses of the East.


21 posted on 03/21/2012 10:50:21 AM PDT by henkster (Andrew Breitbart would not have apologized.)
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To: PzLdr
[1] MacArthur did use the third person describing himself.

Which is fine but in your original post, you said he always used third person. I merely pointed out that multiple subordinates mention his manner of breaking the conflict down to a first person singular struggle between himself and the "Jap" in a manner similar to "If the Jap attacks me here, I shall..."

[2] First, Patton was a subordinate himself. Bradley and Monty commanded the Army Groups.

True and I dare say Ike with no combat experience period saw himself as something akin to a Gen. Marshall. A chief of staff sitting far to the rear administering operations. Therefore, Ike had no choice but to give operational credit to individual army commanders.

And quite a lot of people knew who Hodges, Gerow, Collin, and Creighton Abrams were.

Quiz the average college graduate who took American History and I'm confident the overwhelming majority could not answer a fill in the blank quiz requiring use of such names.

[3] Compared to the December 7th-8th f*uck up,

What was it that you consider to be the big Dec 8th f*uck up?

the screw ups at Bataan,

Well, the Bataan forces are still holding out at this point. Can the Brit's or Dutch say the same about theirs? Furthermore, for how much longer do you believe the Bataan forces will need to hold out before re-enforcements from the U.S. arrive?

the New Guinea campaign, Leyte [invaded for airfields that couldn’t be built because of the soil], and the almost wholely unneeded Southern Pacific campaign,

I dare say the proportionally greater number of men in MacArthur's forces who lived to return home, go to college, marry, start careers and live normal lives might disagree with your assessment but I'm sure that there will be ample opportunity starting later this year to discuss the campaigns you mention in detail.

As for the Battle of the Bulge, blame for that rests principally on Ike [unfamiliar with the sector, not convinced by junior G-2s and his J-2 that something was up]. Compare it to the run up to Kasserine.

Yet Ike is considered by so many to have been such a great general.

22 posted on 03/21/2012 11:52:17 AM PDT by fso301
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