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To: chimera

On an flight with a nuke engineer, Gofman did some back of the envelope calculations. He knew from all his years in the lab (as a physicist) that human limitations contribute to the release of samples no matter how careful they were. As he sat contemplating how toxic plutonium was, based on his research, he then did some calculations to see how much radioactive material nuclear plants would be expected to release based on known laboratory experience. He was horrified - the toll on human health was shocking and unacceptable. So he then calculated the maximum percentage a power plant could release without damaging the human population - this value was quite low. Concerned about his research and the impact radiation could have on humans, he turned the the nuke engineer next to him and asked him how much containment engineering limitations would allow him to build into a plant (how tight could they build a plant). The engineer breezily said that plants could be built to whatever specification John gave them ‘you give us the specification, we build it’. And John smiled and basically said “I’ve been working in labs for many many years and I can tell you that there’s a limit, it’s impossible to guarantee ANY specification given.’ As the nuke engineer reiterated that they’d build whatever was specified, John, a highly accomplished nuclear physicist and medical physician, was horrified to recognize the degree of hubris the man displayed. THIS was the turning point. John was dismayed that his research revealed that radiation was far more damaging to human health than anyone had previously realized. He started to share his work and they tried to destroy him and others in his lab for it. John and his peers plotted how to get their research to the public - they shouldn’t have to of course but that was the birth of the nuke industry: suppression, lies, intimidation. THIS is when the nuclear people stopped praising his work (He had previously done Oppenheim a great service by refining fuel samples faster than previously possible) and started to sneer that he was a nut. That’s all it takes to alienate the nuke industry - the truth.

I already posted upthread research demonstrating the death toll resulting from Chernobyl and the the state of the art BEIR VI that even small amounts of radiation increase the risk of developing cancer. Did you know cancer can kill? I have already explained what you know - that on a NAME ONE PERSON basis, the nuke industry hopes we’ll forget the plain, obvious, undeniable fact that radiation causes cancer and that cancer causes fatalities. The comprehensive report that I linked to: It tracked jumps in cancer and leukemia in Belarus and across the globe along with jumps in birth defects and still births. Do I know the names of still born babies in the US that can be tagged to a nuke plant? Uh no - that’s not how research works. A research sample has to be large (tens of thousands) and the names are not published. But you know that. That’s why you keep ignoring documented research and asking for ONE NAME. Time for your next dose.


31 posted on 02/11/2012 3:30:33 PM PST by ransomnote
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To: ransomnote
OK, so you can't give me a name. Fine, we'll leave it at that. I ll count that round as a win by default.

So, if you can't give me a name, and there is all this harm being done out there, how about a citation for a successful case brought by class action lawsuit that demonstrates harm to a group of people that is causally linked to radiation from a power plant? No individual names, just an example of case law that shows a group of people was awarded a judgment based on harm proved to be caused by radiation from a nuclear plant. Don't say it isn't possible to prove a case on this basis. There is tons of case law on the very same thing, for effects of things like pesticides, chemicals, tobacco use, pharmaceuticals, etc. You can't, because there is no such proof.

Those are horseshit calculations. I don't care who did them. During normal operation no plutonium is released from an LWR. In the most pessimistic accident scenario you are going to get local contamination and nothing else. Even if someone ingests a significant amount of plutonium, it is far from the 100% death sentence you fearmongers push. There is an ongoing study of plutonium workers at Los Alamos who have probably ingested more plutonium than could ever be emitted from a nuclear plant. The cohort group consist of 26 white males. Of that group, seven have died, compared with an expected death rate of 16 for US mortality at the age of these individuals. That means on average they are living longer than non-exposed individuals. (Interestingly, the "hot particle" plutonium "theory" pushed by fearmongers would predict a 99.5% mortality in this group, all from lung cancers induced by plutonium This has not happened.) Of the seven fatalities, three were from cancer (bone, prostate, and lung). That is not statistically elevated. Of the others, they show physical changes and illnesses consist with unexposed groups of this age. Of the 26 total, eight have been diagnosed with one or more cancers, which is within the expected range for a unexposed cohort group. It is worth noting that these individuals received far higher exposures to plutonium (from a laboratory, not a power plant) than any member of the public ever would from a nuclear plant even under the worst circumstances, and no demonstrable harm was caused them that can be causally linked to their exposure.

32 posted on 02/11/2012 4:12:34 PM PST by chimera
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