Post-September 11, NSA ‘enemies’ include us

Politico ^ | 9/8/11 | James Banford

[SaraJohnson]

Somewhere between Sept. 11 and today, the enemy morphed from a handful of terrorists to the American population at large, leaving us nowhere to run and no place to hide.

Within weeks of the attacks, the giant ears of the National Security Agency, always pointed outward toward potential enemies, turned inward on the American public itself. The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, established 23 years before to ensure that only suspected foreign agents and terrorists were targeted by the NSA, would be bypassed. Telecom companies, required by law to keep the computerized phone records of their customers confidential unless presented with a warrant, would secretly turn them over in bulk to the NSA without ever asking for a warrant.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/62999.html#ixzz1XwmzoxTZ

[SaraJohnson]

Is it impossible to turn this Orwellian monster away from the abyss? Given Obama has named everyone who is not a socialist, a domestic terrorist; including those who support the constitution, who support human life and the second amendment, and who severed in the Irq war, we really need to get serious about Homeland Security and their abettors in Congress turning on Americans and renaming crime and American political views "terrorism."

[MichaelCorleone]

But, but, but...if you’re not doing anything wrong there’s nothing to worry about!

[TribalPrincess2U]

We have to have hope things will change for the better in 2012.

[Wolfie]

Good thing we didn’t hastily pass a far-reaching piece of legislation that greatly expanded the powers of the State in the areas of wiretapping, law-enforcement, detainment, and search and seizure in a “patriotic” knee-jerk reacion to the 9/11 attacks.

[Palter]

The Orwellian beast didn’t start with Obama. I would say that the ‘Patriot’ act was some morbid joke.

[Eva]

A good start would be to privatize the TSA and de-certify their union.

[TribalPrincess2U]

We’ll have to remind our senators of that after the election.

We need a prioritized list.

[SaraJohnson]

It’s time to define “terrorism” in the partiot act, too. As it is, everything is now terrorism and everyone is a terrorist. This is an outrageous betrayal of the American people.

[Tammy8]

The irony is one thing that should have been at the top of the list after 9/11- securing our borders- is still not done. Terrorists can and do wander in with illegals, cartels can and do make deals with terrorists...

When the administration (past and present) don’t think it necessary to seal the borders it makes most of what they did do out to be a joke. With the amount of privacy we had to give up- I don’t think anyone is laughing.

[SaraJohnson]

Them not securing the borders shows the lie of the whole “security” operation, doesn’t it. It looks like our Congress and President WANT to spy on, harass and control Americans and it has little to do with security from terrorism.

[papasmurf]

I would be pretty happy if they excluded middle-aged-white-men-driving-white-vans from their lists. lol

[SaraJohnson]

Just, whatever you do, don’t be nervous when they do you over, okay? :)

[philman_36]

It’s time to define “terrorism” in the partiot act, too.
Ummmm...I don't know where you've been, but it's already done.
TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 113B > § 2331 Definitions (see below for Code Citations)
(1) the term “international terrorism” means...(blah, blah, blah)
(5) the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—
(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; >(well that covers just about everything, doesn't it!)<
(B) appear to be intended— >(Hey, Rockie...watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat)<
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and (C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.

Public Law 107 - 56 - Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism (USA PATRIOT ACT) Act of 2001
United States Code Citations - 18 U.S.C. 1029, 1030, 1344, 1362, 1363, 1366, 16, 1956, 1960, 1961, 1992, 2155, 2325, 2331, 2332b, 2332e, 2339A...

[philman_36]

As it is, everything is now terrorism and everyone is a terrorist.
Yep, and § 2331 (5)(B) allows it, all nice and legal like.

[philman_36]

Well, (5)(A) and (B) allow it.
Don't you just love vague laws! It allows tyrants so much leeway.

[SaraJohnson]

Obviously we need some lawyers who can tweak that defination of domestic terrorism a bit. :) How about you?

[philman_36]

How about you?
I've been harping against what would become Section 2331 from day one to no avail!

I guess people just don't think about these laws actually being turned against them.
Too many have a fool's naive trust in good governance through concise, well written laws when such is usually not the case.

[SaraJohnson]

Well, forgive us dummys for our transgressions and stupidity and git ‘er done now!

[BIGLOOK]

Echelon 4G?

Guess I'll have to warn my 86 year old Aunt Gloria to tone down her terroristic remarks.....like "I don't like what's happening.....nobody does." and "Even the cattle avoid the salt lick if it's circular shaped. We had to go back to the old salt blocks."

(Personally, something doesn't sound right here.)

[philman_36]

Well, forgive us dummys for our transgressions and stupidity and git ‘er done now!
Ignorance can be fixed, stupid can't.