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To: DiogenesLamp
And you still have not addressed the fact that were Madison's offhand comment true, Slaves and Indians would have been citizens. They meet his criteria, but lo and behold they were not citizens! Your argument is rebuked by fact.

Are you deliberately being obtuse? Indians were considered members of "sovereign" Indian nations (classified as "domestic dependent nations") so their citizenship was with their Indian "nation," which is also why the Constitution excluded them from taxes. It's also why if you visit the Navajo reservation in the Southwest, you will see you are visiting the "Navajo Nation." Note that current US Title 8 gives citizenship to "Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe [emphasis added.]

Slaves, since they were property, did not have citizenship rights. (Do you know of any country where slaves were citizens with citizenship rights while still slaves?)

I again point out that by your logic, "“chosen every second Year by the People of the several States,” would be invalid since women could not vote and yet are of the people.

And I'm so glad you were physically present when James Madison gave his speech so you could attest that his "comment" was "offhand" instead of part of his prepared speech.

143 posted on 08/10/2011 10:17:56 AM PDT by sometime lurker
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To: sometime lurker
Are you deliberately being obtuse?

No. If I were, your argument would make sense.

Indians were considered members of "sovereign" Indian nations (classified as "domestic dependent nations") so their citizenship was with their Indian "nation," which is also why the Constitution excluded them from taxes. It's also why if you visit the Navajo reservation in the Southwest, you will see you are visiting the "Navajo Nation." Note that current US Title 8 gives citizenship to "Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe [emphasis added.]

So you are saying that Children born of citizens from other nations do not become American Citizens just because they are born here? Great! We agree! My point exactly!

Slaves, since they were property, did not have citizenship rights. (Do you know of any country where slaves were citizens with citizenship rights while still slaves?)

Place of birth! Place of Birth! Nothing else matters. Anyone born here is supposed to be a "citizen" just because they were born here. (according to your theory.)

And I'm so glad you were physically present when James Madison gave his speech so you could attest that his "comment" was "offhand" instead of part of his prepared speech.

I am so glad that your arguing style is so infantile that it poses not a threat to the truth. And now you have pounced on the trifle of the word "offhand" because you can do no better with bigger points of fact.

171 posted on 08/10/2011 12:25:35 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Abortion is Murder and Democrats are Stupid and/or Evil.)
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