Posted on 06/18/2011 5:36:34 AM PDT by Jerrybob
This is one of the most interesting and thought-provoking articles I have read in a very long time.
http://uscca.us/ccr/view_post.php?postId=381
What if he has the vest wired to a jogger’s pulse monitor?If you shoot him,he blows up.
The gunman got in his car and started to drive off. A Texan took out his .44 magnum with scope from his car and shot the gunman trying to leave the parking lot through the door of his car and killed him. The Texan left the scene.
The gunman's car exited the parking lot and got caught in a ditch. The police did not see the hole in the door for a while and thought he may have killed himself.
The Texan eventually turned himself in. He went in front of the Grand Jury and was admitted. The issue was that the woman was dead so the Texan was not preventing a death and the gunman was not a threat to the Texan.
The gunman was leaving the scene of a crime but the crime was not against the Texan.
Still, I would not pop someone just for being on my property after dark
I choose to use Texas law shield for legal rep in the state of Texas. I wish someone would provide a similar service that covered the nation. -----------on------------------139391554214153 Ctent-Disposition: form-data; name="sig"
was admitted = was acquitted
That's a reasonable presumption, but presumptions are, by definition, rebuttable. IIRC, Texas also allows the use of deadly force to protect personal property.
Anywho, the poster's hypothetical was a situation away from your own property, and in public.
If he is still armed and posting a threat in general, then you can’t sit there and have a philosophical debate, he is a threat to you and everyone else.
I recommend that book quite frequently, have an extra copy to loan out. Parts of it are a little out of date (some of the firearms recommendations), but it is still excellent. I don’t know of anything better for making you think about mindset and legal issues. If anyone knows of a better book for that, I want to know about it.
Another thing, is when a Massad F. Ayoob's LFI is held in your area, it would be a good thing to attend. Our club has one, once a year, and the class fills up quickly. I quite surprised Mas' link above is so outdated. I'm kinda embarrassed, actually. 2009? WTF?
Bookmark
I had the chance in Marin County to drop a guy that was holding up a C store. He had his back to me and was shaking so bad I thought he was going to have an AD and kill the clerk. I could not be sure my bullet would not go through him so I picked up a half gallon of wine in glass and beaned him as hard as I could. Still almost got arrested and charged. Moved from Kalifornia shortly after that.
There is probably no better example of where a citizens arrest comes in.
You personally witnessed a felony, the most violent type. You don’t have a duty to act, like a police officer, but you would be well within your rights to arrest the shooter. And yes, shooting him would constitute a seizure, an arrest. You shot to stop any further aggressive action or to keep the shooter from leaving despite your warning to stop, if that is practical.
Armed citizens have to have these scenarios already played out prior to them happening. You MUST know what to do before, during and after a shooting and have a plan to implement.
True, and it depends on the law where you are to some extent. Intervening on behalf of a third party carries risks. In this state it is an affirmative defense if you had reason to believe the person you shot was either inflicting serious bodily injury or killing another or in immediate danger of so doing. That may vary in other states.
I’ll read it later today... I am at work arghhhh.
My comments were in response to posts here more than the article.
LLS
So by the time I get my eyeballs on the scene, I've heard at least two shots and I see two slumping bodies and you (knarf) with your firearm out. So, rewording the above quote from you:
"...I personally would shoot to kill (to kill knarf that is) because shots just occured which indicates intent to kill (by the perp (which as far as I can tell is knarf)) and I am in a position to stop a killer ((which as far as I can tell is knarf))."
As an aside, don't come to Ohio with your position. I don't know about Pennsylvania, but last I heard, in Ohio it's legal to shoot to stop, but it's not legal to shoot to kill. The intent must be to "stop" and the killing just a side effect of the stopping. Statements like "I personally would shoot to kill" can be used against you in court (civil or criminal) if they can be traced back to you.
“These days you have to consider other stuff. How do you know he’s not wearing a suicide vest?”
How do you know his shoot wasn’t justifiable?
“Kill him before he blows and takes 20 more with him.”
How would one know your killing him was justifiable? Why should they not kill you before you blow (figuratively or literally) and take 20 more with you?
I think you have a reasonable right to action in most states if you are defending anyone’s life, but you may not know all the details of a situation and it could be expensive to explain in court even if your actions were to save an innocent victim.
I dropped my CPR/first aid training due to frivolous laws suits.
The good Samaritan law offers protection now, but I have seen people sued for cracking a few ribs while saving the plaintiffs life.
Florida has a “forcible felony” provision in the statutes that allows for shooting someone in the commission of a forcible felony. I would believe that having shot someone they’ve already committed the felony and thus an open season target, but that’s just me.
Like others have said in the forum, I’ll take the 12.
There's the bugaboo. For instance, you are walking along the edge of a park at night, and hear someone moaning "Stop!", "Rape!".
It is conceiveable that your intervention might only be a stellar case of coitus interruptus, having stumbled across some sort of 'fantasy fulfillment' being carried out by a consenting couple...Or you might rescue someone.
No one said it would be easy.
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