Police cite Vernal man accused of paying bill with 2,500 pennies

Deseret News ^ | Friday, June 3, 2011

[nickcarraway]

A Vernal man has been charged with disorderly conduct after police say he caused alarm when he paid for a disputed medical bill in pennies.

On May 27, Jason West went to Basin Clinic prepared to dispute an outstanding bill, according to Assistant Vernal Police Chief Keith Campbell. West, 38, apparently did not believe he owed the clinic the $25 it said he did.

“After asking if they accepted cash, West dumped 2,500 pennies onto the counter and demanded that they count it,” Campbell said. “The pennies were strewn about the counter and the floor.”

The incident upset clinic staff, said Campbell, adding that West's behavior served "no legitimate purpose."

Clinic staff told West they were calling police and he left the office.

[pepsionice]

Makes you wonder what the $25 bill was all about in the first place. Course, pennies are legal tender.

[Truth29]

Not that this is even hinted about in the article, but I wonder if a disorderly conduct conviction would cost him the right to own firearms?

[arderkrag]

Course, pennies are legal tender.

I don't think they would have cared about the pennies if he hadn't, you know, dumped them everywhere.

[geezerwheezer]

I must admit this guy had a novel approach to paying a disputed bill. Oh how I wish I had the gumption to pay a few like he did! Were I the judge, I would dismiss the charges and fine the cops for stupidity as they were not there and didn’t see it happen, so it’s the clinics word against the man involved.

[Keith in Iowa]

Yesterday’s discussion: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2730291/posts

[Oceander]

If he offered legal tender in payment of the bill and they refuse to accept it, then he no longer owes the bill and gets to keep his pennies, if he can clean them all up.

[sport]

They were teaching the pesant a lesson. Serfs are only to obey their masters. They are not allowed to question them in any manner, not express displeasure at or with their actions. They said he owed 25 dollars. Therefore, he owed 25 dollars. The reason he supposedly owed the money is, in their point of view, irrevelent.

[sport]

That would have been my take on it also. But, we are now living in a different universe than the one I was raised in.

[camle]

i don’t think it wasth epennies that got him into trouble. it was the way he behaved. had he walked in with dollar bills and threw then on the counter whilst being loud nad abusuive he still would have gotten run in.
I’v edone things like this before, and if you behave like a sane human being they CAN’T arrest you.

[NELSON111]

Common myth. Just because a currency IS legal tender...it doesn’t mean the vendor is obligated to take it. If they don’t accept anything over a $20....you can’t pay with a $100.

[Oceander]

Common myth. Just because a currency IS legal tender...it doesn’t mean the vendor is obligated to take it. If they don’t accept anything over a $20....you can’t pay with a $100.

Unfortunately, your own illustration fails the point - the issue isn't the quantity of legal tender offered, the issue is the difference between legal tender and something else.

Also, unless the creditor in this instance had established conditions or restrictions on what forms of payment it would accept, tender of "payment" - and "legal tender" is payment - in full, satisfies the debtor's obligations under the agreement requiring such payment once there has been sufficient performance to create a valid debt (which there was here since services had already been performed), and the creditor's rejection of that offer may affect the creditor's continuing rights.

In most instances, the creditor is still entitled to receive the payment that was tendered; so strictly speaking, I painted too broadly when I said the guy could just pick up his pennies and go home. However, if the creditor in this case then proceeds to sue on the debt, the simple solution is to just deposit the 2,500 pennies with the court clerk, as payment in full, and leave it to the court to sort out the creditor - the creditor will not be allowed any interest as of the date on which full payment was tendered, and rejected, and were I the debtor in those circumstances, I would most definitely seek fees and costs against the creditor.

I would tend to agree with other posters who've said that the offensive conduct was dumping the pennies all over the place, although I don't know if that's an arrestable offense, however, on the issue of payment, payment in full was tendered unless the contract under which the debtor was obliged either permitted rejection of payments in the form of specie at the discretion of the creditor, or specified that payment would only be accepted in some non-specie form.

[NELSON111]

Of course the creditor is entitled...I didn't argue that point. My point was...and is correct...the creditor is NOT obligated to TAKE your form of currency. That is what the post(s) said...and it is wrong. If you owe someone $20.00...and they don't want 2000 pennies....and you have 2000 pennies...they don't have to take them...and you aren't free of the bill...you still owe $20.

That was the point of my post...and saying the man offered payment and could walk away because it's legal tender is wrong. So...what's the problem?

And of course the problem was his attitude. You have to be an A$$ to do what he did in the first place...so yeah...he likely did it "in style" and that's was the reason for the bracelets.

[Oceander]

Fair enough; nonetheless, I do not think that a court, for example, would look very favorably on a creditor who refused to accept payment in full when tendered in any form of legal tender, unless that tender involved, perhaps, a literal dump-truck load of pennies, and I would not be half-surprised if a court - at the defendant debtor’s simple request - would assess costs against that creditor well in excess of the amount demanded. In which case, as a practical matter, if a creditor refuses to accept payment in legal tender, then s/he has waived their rights to enforce performance.

I still say if the gent had simply not thrown the pennies around the way he did, he’d be 2,500 pennies to the good by now.

[NELSON111]

True...like I said...he is probably a jerk to begin with...and you know what happens to jerks when they think someone has slighted them: They look for ways to be “extra-jerky.”

[Oceander]

True...like I said...he is probably a jerk to begin with...and you know what happens to jerks when they think someone has slighted them: They look for ways to be “extra-jerky.”

True enough, true enough!