Posted on 05/03/2011 1:00:21 PM PDT by ransomnote
video at link: http://www.fairewinds.com/updates
Where is all that Fukushima radiation going, and why does it matter?, Fairewinds Associates, May 2, 2011:
Fairewinds’ founder Maggie Gundersen interviews environmental scientist and professional engineer Marco Kaltofen about his ongoing analysis of radioactive fallout from Fukushima.
Highlights
2:45 Internal radiation 5:00 Information on particles 9:00 Particles can land and continuous expose someone 11:10 Radiation in food going to be a nationwide problem 16:35 Geiger counter doesn’t measure dusty fallout 16:50 Gov’t agencies need to take on burden of testing, it’s going to be serious and we want to get info in a timely way
:
I don’t remember the source, but I have heard that this kind of radiation disappears in months, as opposed to Chernobyl, which will stay bad for a long time.
More informed people may correct me.
For those of us with problems watching videos, would you give us the info?
I’m no expert but I read early on that the half life for this Cesium 131 is 8 days and its totally gone in 80 days. I just hope its true. right now we are just taking a common sense precaution and we are drinking bottled water and have stopped buying fresh cream. We are using a non dairy creamer in our coffee and powdered milk for cooking. As for veggies we are still eating them so who knows?
If you’re in Georgia (the state, not the country) then you have absolutely nothing to worry about regarding any radiation from Fukushima, unless by some chance you’re eating food imported from Japan. Even then the worries are minimal.
As to half-lives, the half-life of Cesium 137 is of most concern, being over 30 years. However, there is no significant concentration of this beyond a few miles around Fukushima. Iodine 131 was released in some quantity, but its half life is only eight days.
For the current situation, see the link below. It looks like things are well under control barring further natural disaster.
http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsunamiupdate01.html
I live in the Pacific Northwest. If anybody should be panicking, it is us, and we're not.
And I too use cream. Haven't changed my habit as there is no reason to do so.
I used to work in the nuclear power industry. How knowledgeable are you about radioactive materials.
And you live in Georgia???
Yeh. Do you trust the United States government farther than you can throw them? I don’t. They say there are minute amounts of radiation in the water and showing up in milk. Maybe their definition of minute is different that mine. LOL!!
“I used to work in the nuclear power industry. How knowledgeable are you about radioactive materials.”
Not very. The brother in law worked several years as an engineer at the nuclear facility in chatanooga, TN. He says its very dangerous. We probably are over reacting but we have been wanting to try that Grandma’s Country Cream dried milk anyway for our survival stuff. It is great by the way. Tastes just like real milk. We use that and the non dairy creamer. We also have about 6 cases of gallon jugs of water we need to drink up so its a good time to do it.
We know we are bring overly cautious.
We know we are being overly cautious.
fairewinds is a company that appears to specialize in providing “expert” testimony and information to groups working to stop nuclear power.
I did a crummy job of paraphrasing (the video is 17plus minutes and I don’t have time to do a good job). Would you mind going through my blob of text and breaking it into the two person dialog it is by putting paragraph breaks between each of the speaks comments and then reposting it? Here it is - I can’t vouch for quality:
Maggie Gunderson (President, CEO, paralegal at an expert testimony and paralegal org) interviews an expert in radiation monitoring (PhD candidate teaching at Worschter Mass). His research is in nuclear fallout and tracking it. He studies microscopic and nanoscopic particles that can blow in the wind and travel globally.
Inhaled radioactive particles have a different impact than ‘background radiation’ because you can move away from an external source and you can’t get away from inhaled particles.
Difference between a dental x-ray and inhaled particle? Dental x-ray is set amount of radiation and you can predict better what is going to have that dose. A particle is different - it can carry a significant amount of radiation. Wherever the particle lands in you body it can start to damage tissue and kill cells - cells that survive that kind of irradiation can potentially form a tumor. So we should behave differently to avoid ingesting or inhaling particles. Particles travel great distances but don’t change much. Some particles arriving in air in US look very much like those in Japan. (Amerisium, Europium, Bismuth, Uranium and other radioactive materials found in air and soil in Japan are appearing in west coast of US and other locations). Maggie: So is that like cigarette smoke which carries some radiation into lungs. Marco: Yes - it’s just one of the reasons we believe smoking causes cancer (natural radiation in cigarettes). Maggie: What about hearing that the radiation we’re receiving is just like travel in an airplane or dental x-rays) Marco: Dental x-rays and air travel are brief exposure but internal radiation (consuming or breathing radioactive particles) gets into the home where its constantly recycled and continue to expose people- it can be continuous. If you absorb it into your body - you can then get that dose for the rest of your life so it’s very important that you distinguish between external radiation and radioactive particles (dust) you inhale or ingest and take extra meausres. Maggie: So people who leave a contiminated zone are still going to be getting these particles that we can’t see when they breath? Marco: What’s happening is particles are sticking to clothing, concrete, carpeting so if we want to prevent exposure we need to prevent particles from landing in the first place or clean them off - anything to reduce long term exposure to those particles. Maggie: So your testing has found this contamination in just Japan or all over. Marco: We see some of these same types of particles that are in Japan in our testing stations in the US (6 stations total in Hawaii, West Coast, East Coast, Japan) This includes radioactive Iodine, Amerisium etc. and we see the same signature as that found in Fukushima although there are less of than Japan. Maggie: will this be all over the world? Marco: Tends to be northern hemisphere. US is about same latittude as Japan so we would expect to see similarities. Note that the levels of radioactive particles are probably much higher in concentration in Japan than those we find in places like the US even during the peak levels of nuke testing of the 50’s and 60’s. Maggie: So what we have now is larger than that of the 50’s and 60’s nuclear testing? Marco: Well the levels are certainly higher in Japan BUT it remains to be seen how much of that will come to the US. Again the problem is that the dust particles land or stick somehwere and continue to give that dose to someone. Also it means that because it’s a physical thing we actually have some chemistry that might help us deal with it. But there’s going to be alot more monitoring required as we try and figure how big a problem this may be in the US. Certainly we can detect it - we know that it’s here. It means we need to test for the presence of these radioactive dust particles.. We need to start looking at sensitive food crops for example the kinds of plants that tend to collect these particles and incorporate them into the plant. We need to start looking at that and find out how serious the problem really is going to be for us. Maggie: Where can people find that ifno (what to grow, what not to grow, what to eat etc.) , where can they look? Because you said something earlier about the soil and will this impact people who garden etc. Marco: It potentially could - there are some long lived materials like Cesium, for example, that stay radioactive for a long time in these dust particles. Cesium tends to do the same thing in soil that potassium does. Gardeners are familiar with potassium based fertilizers. Cesium, even though it’s radioactive, mimics potassium in this regard. So it’s going to behave the same way potassium does. That’s a concern that’s going to take a consistent sampling effort to see how much of that is being incorporated into food plants before they get into the market. We did something similar with BP oil spill - seafood was tested by FDA and found to have oil. We are going to have an even bigger effort to test for radiation because this will be a nation wide problem not just limited to one region: Maggie: But I heard the EPA is not going to test fish and some monitoring has been turned off. What do we do about that? Marco: I haven’t seen any data for fish and agricultural products except milk. (we are detecting levels of radiation in milk because radioactive iodine that tends to collect in dairy products) I think what we need to do is expand testing and look at crops that might be sensistive to collecting radiation from dusty fallout. Without this information we are not informed enough to make any decisions. Maggie: So what should people do at this point. Marco: I think what people should do is remember that we have learned to try and deal with toxic dust for a long time. I think through public edcuation we dramatically reduced the exposure to lead in dust for children. It was a major public health issue and we were able to take corrective action and deal with the problem. We may need to, based on what our data tells us, do something on a similar scale and try and find those ways that we can protect the public health by reducing exposure to radioactive dust. But the first step is testing. Without the numbers, we don’t know how much we have to proceed, how much corrective action needs to be taken. Maggie: So in answer to those asking us, what should they do to get testing and monitoring system back up. I’ve been saying contact the mayor, governor, federal government. Am I on target? Marco: I think you are partly on target. I am going to speak to people might be in Japan or in an area where there is radioactive fallout that has accumulated. There you are going to practice good dust hygiene. Some of the things are going to be very simple. It may be as simple as making sure to wash your hands before preparing food. None of this is going to sound like rocket science. We have dealt with this before with other issues.This is something that we can test for and there are ways to remove radioactive dust from food if they have fallout. If the plants have absorbed the radioactive materials - we may need to ensure that those materials just don’t make it into commerce. Maggie: This is radioactive dust that we can all inhale, correct? So does this mean that we should remove outerwear and shoes when enterring the house to avoid tracking dust into the house, is this correct? Marco: Correct. In our lab we have alot dust control measures - it’s true that shoes and sneakers and ivercoats stay outside in the hallway - you don’t want to bring that dust from outside into your home. About 70% of dust in your home is actually dirt particles from the immediate area surrounding your home so you can really reduce the amount of dust coming into your home. And think about that before you undertake say, a home renovation. We have seen this on a smale scale before where people who renovate homes near a source of radioactive dust from a particular plant or accident will have to take extra dust control mesaures so that they don’t become exposed when they raised the dust while doing work on the home. Maggie: Well that makes sense. What about, we are coming up on the summer months both here and in Japan, what about people who want to run outside or do vacation activities? Marco: You know, these are tough questions. Probably for most people, even in most of Japan, the health benefits from being outdoors and getting that excercise and having fresh foods will outweigh radiation risks. One thing we did find out from the period of time when we did above ground testing (nuclear) was that sometimes the weather will drop a relatively concentrated amount of fallout in a small area often far distant from where the detonation took place so again there will have to be a certain amount of testing. Maybe we will find ourselves having a radiactive pollution alert the same way we might have an ozone alert in the hot days the summer of a major city where they say “if you are going to excercise, maybe you just shouldn’t do it tomorrow morning”. Maggie: Well that makes sense. But again we are going to have to get our officials/governments on board to help with this process whether you are in Japan or the US or in Canada. Marco: That’s true. Because even if you happen to have a geiger counter, just holding it out the window it won’t measure the radioactive dust fallout well because that usually takes a more expensive equipment and it’s harder thing to do so we are looking at asking our government agencies to take on that burden.It’s going to be serious and we are going to want to get that information in a timely way. Maggie: Marco, thank you. I hope you will come back again because I think we’ll get more questions. Anything in closing that you want to let our viewers know? Marco: We’ll keep looking for these radioactive particulates and hopefully get this data out and published as quickly as possible. Thank you for having me on. Maggie: Well thank you for coming and participating in this effort to let people know what’s really happening in Fukushima. CREDITS: Fairewinds Associates Produced by : PolarisMediaworks.com
There is a range of radioactive materials being produced (Cesium 137, Cesium 139, Iodine-131, Iodine-134, various types of metals Plutonium, Uranium etc.) and each has it’s own ‘half-life’ or time that it remains hazardous. The ‘most common’ or talked about type of radioative iodine has a half life of 8 days. One type of radioactive cesium has a half-life of 30 years but I’ve read that the duration of radioactive half-life in the body versus outside the body is different for cesium and I don’t understand why. Plutonium and Uranium unfortunately remain radioactive for thousands of years. Here’s a fact sheet for types of radioactive particles: http://www.epa.gov/radiation/radionuclides/
EPA and FDA were testing for iodine in milk but were not testing for things like strontium, cesium etc. I haven’t seen any comprehensive tests but I assume independent labs will over time.
There is a range of radioactive materials being produced (Cesium 137, Cesium 139, Iodine-131, Iodine-134, various types of metals Plutonium, Uranium etc.) and each has it’s own ‘half-life’ or time that it remains hazardous. The ‘most common’ or talked about type of radioative iodine has a half life of 8 days. One type of radioactive cesium has a half-life of 30 years but I’ve read that the duration of radioactive half-life in the body versus outside the body is different for cesium and I don’t understand why. Plutonium and Uranium unfortunately remain radioactive for thousands of years. Here’s a fact sheet for types of radioactive particles: http://www.epa.gov/radiation/radionuclides/
EPA and FDA were testing for iodine in milk but were not testing for things like strontium, cesium etc. I haven’t seen any comprehensive tests but I assume independent labs will over time.
Maggie Gunderson (President, CEO, paralegal at an expert testimony and paralegal org) interviews an expert in radiation monitoring (PhD candidate teaching at Worschter Mass). His research is in nuclear fallout and tracking it. He studies microscopic and nanoscopic particles that can blow in the wind and travel globally.
Marco: Paraphrased - Inhaled radioactive particles have a different impact than ‘background radiation’ because you can move away from an external source and you can’t get away from inhaled particles.
Maggie: How is this different from dental x-rays ?
Marco: Difference between a dental x-ray and inhaled particle? Dental x-ray is set amount of radiation and you can predict better what is going to have that dose. A particle is different - it can carry a significant amount of radiation. Wherever the particle lands in you body it can start to damage tissue and kill cells - cells that survive that kind of irradiation can potentially form a tumor. So we should behave differently to avoid ingesting or inhaling particles. Particles travel great distances but don’t change much. Some particles arriving in air in US look very much like those in Japan. (Americium, Europium, Bismuth, Uranium and other radioactive materials found in air and soil in Japan are appearing in west coast of US and other locations).
Maggie: So is that like cigarette smoke which carries some radiation into lungs.
Marco: Yes - it’s just one of the reasons we believe smoking causes cancer (natural radiation in cigarettes).
Maggie: What about hearing that the radiation we’re receiving is just like travel in an airplane or dental x-rays).
Marco: Dental x-rays and air travel are brief exposure but internal radiation (consuming or breathing radioactive particles) gets into the home where its constantly recycled and continue to expose people- it can be continuous. If you absorb it into your body - you can then get that dose for the rest of your life so it’s very important that you distinguish between external radiation and radioactive particles (dust) you inhale or ingest and take extra measures.
Maggie: So people who leave a contaminated zone are still going to be getting these particles that we can’t see when they breath?
Marco: What’s happening is particles are sticking to clothing, concrete, carpeting so if we want to prevent exposure we need to prevent particles from landing in the first place or clean them off - anything to reduce long term exposure to those particles.
Maggie: So your testing has found this contamination in just Japan or all over.
Marco: We see some of these same types of particles that are in Japan in our testing stations in the US (6 stations total in Hawaii, West Coast, East Coast, Japan) This includes radioactive Iodine, Americium etc. and we see the same signature as that found in Fukushima, although there are less than signatures in Japan.
Maggie: will this be all over the world?
Marco: Tends to be northern hemisphere. US is about same latitude as Japan so we would expect to see similarities. Note that the levels of radioactive particles are probably much higher in concentration in Japan than those we find in places like the US even during the peak levels of nuke testing of the 50’s and 60’s.
Maggie: So what we have now is larger than that of the 50’s and 60’s nuclear testing?
Marco: Well the levels are certainly higher in Japan, but it remains to be seen how much of that will come to the US. Again the problem is that the dust particles land or stick somewhere and continue to give that dose to someone. Also it means that because it’s a physical thing we actually have some chemistry that might help us deal with it. But there’s going to be alot more monitoring required as we try and figure how big a problem this may be in the US. Certainly we can detect it - we know that it’s here. It means we need to test for the presence of these radioactive dust particles. We need to start looking at sensitive food crops for example the kinds of plants that tend to collect these particles and incorporate them into the plant. We need to start looking at that and find out how serious the problem really is going to be for us.
Maggie: Where can people find that info (what to grow, what not to grow, what to eat etc.) , where can they look? Because you said something earlier about the soil and will this impact people who garden etc.
Marco: It potentially could - there are some long lived materials like Cesium, for example, that stay radioactive for a long time in these dust particles. Cesium tends to do the same thing in soil that potassium does. Gardeners are familiar with potassium based fertilizers. Cesium, even though it’s radioactive, mimics potassium in this regard. So it’s going to behave the same way potassium does. That’s a concern that’s going to take a consistent sampling effort to see how much of that is being incorporated into food plants before they get into the market. We did something similar with BP oil spill - seafood was tested by FDA and found to have oil. We are going to have an even bigger effort to test for radiation because this will be a nation wide problem not just limited to one region.
Maggie: But I heard the EPA is not going to test fish and some monitoring has been turned off. What do we do about that?
Marco: I haven’t seen any data for fish and agricultural products except milk. (we are detecting levels of radiation in milk because radioactive iodine that tends to collect in dairy products) I think what we need to do is expand testing and look at crops that might be sensitive to collecting radiation from dusty fallout. Without this information we are not informed enough to make any decisions.
Maggie: So what should people do at this point.
Marco: I think what people should do is remember that we have learned to try and deal with toxic dust for a long time. I think through public education we dramatically reduced the exposure to lead in dust for children. It was a major public health issue and we were able to take corrective action and deal with the problem. We may need to, based on what our data tells us, do something on a similar scale and try and find those ways that we can protect the public health by reducing exposure to radioactive dust. But the first step is testing. Without the numbers, we don’t know how much we have to proceed, how much corrective action needs to be taken.
Maggie: So in answer to those asking us, what should they do to get testing and monitoring system back up. I’ve been saying contact the mayor, governor, federal government. Am I on target?
Marco: I think you are partly on target. I am going to speak to people might be in Japan or in an area where there is radioactive fallout that has accumulated. There you are going to practice good dust hygiene. Some of the things are going to be very simple. It may be as simple as making sure to wash your hands before preparing food. None of this is going to sound like rocket science. We have dealt with this before with other issues.This is something that we can test for and there are ways to remove radioactive dust from food if they have fallout. If the plants have absorbed the radioactive materials - we may need to ensure that those materials just don’t make it into commerce.
Maggie: This is radioactive dust that we can all inhale, correct?
Marco: Yes it is.
Maggie: So does this mean that we should remove outerwear and shoes when entering the house to avoid tracking dust into the house, is this correct?
Marco: Correct. In our lab we have a lot of dust control measures - it’s true that shoes and sneakers and coats stay outside in the hallway - you don’t want to bring that dust from outside into your home. About 70% of dust in your home is actually dirt particles from the immediate area surrounding your home so you can really reduce the amount of dust coming into your home. And think about that before you undertake say, a home renovation. We have seen this on a small scale before where people who renovate homes near a source of radioactive dust from a particular plant or accident will have to take extra dust control measures so that they don’t become exposed when they raised the dust while doing work on the home.
Maggie: Well that makes sense. What about, we are coming up on the summer months both here and in Japan, what about people who want to run outside or do vacation activities?
Marco: You know, these are tough questions. Probably for most people, even in most of Japan, the health benefits from being outdoors and getting that exercise and having fresh foods will outweigh radiation risks. One thing we did find out from the period of time when we did above ground testing (nuclear) was that sometimes the weather will drop a relatively concentrated amount of fallout in a small area often far distant from where the detonation took place so again there will have to be a certain amount of testing. Maybe we will find ourselves having a radioactive pollution alert the same way we might have an ozone alert in the hot days the summer of a major city where they say “if you are going to exercise, maybe you just shouldn’t do it tomorrow morning”.
Maggie: Well that makes sense. But again we are going to have to get our officials/governments on board to help with this process whether you are in Japan or the US or in Canada.
Marco: That’s true. Because even if you happen to have a Geiger counter, just holding it out the window, it won’t measure the radioactive dust fallout well because that usually takes more expensive equipment and it’s harder thing to do so we are looking at asking our government agencies to take on that burden. It’s going to be serious and we are going to want to get that information in a timely way.
Maggie: Marco, thank you. I hope you will come back again because I think we’ll get more questions. Anything in closing that you want to let our viewers know?
Marco: We’ll keep looking for these radioactive particulates and hopefully get the data out and published as quickly as possible. Thank you for having me on.
Maggie: Well thank you for coming and participating in this effort to let people know what’s really happening in Fukushima.
CREDITS: Fairewinds Associates Produced by : PolarisMediaworks.com
Wow, thanks. That took some time to type up.
I’ve been keeping a haphazard record of the http://www.radiationnetwork.com/ numbers and I haven’t seen any rise in the reported radiation around the country. It’s nothing “official” and it uses geiger counters but it’s better than nothing. BTW, 100 is the shtf number. For example:
Seattle, WA on 3/18 reported 24 and 28 just now (the numbers are updated minute by minute and fluxuations are expected).
Prescott, AZ 18 then and 19 now
Austin, TX 9 and 6
Chicago, IL 36 and 29
NYC 9 and 17
Well lets just hope it does not get worse.
Interesting - I hadn’t thought about reducing the dust load of the garage - good idea. Thanks for formatting that mess!
Interesting - I hadn’t thought about reducing the dust load of the garage - good idea. Thanks for formatting that mess!
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