Posted on 04/21/2011 11:47:24 PM PDT by Swordmaker
Possibly. I may need to check my wife’s iPhone to confirm. Oh wait...I need to get her an iPhone so I can easily track her where abouts.
There’s no escaping this privacy issue for the iBots...this is bad anyway you look at it.
When Google collects data, it is suspect.
When Microsoft has data leaks, fears are raised.
When Apple creates a log of your movements, it is defended.
Sorry, but anyone who defends this is a class-a hypocrite unless they can show where they have posted a defense of other companies doing the same thing.
There you go trying to put common sense into this. That will get you banned from the apple threads. They only like to listen to like minded pro-apple posts.
Couldn't she just go to the mall, or wherever, and then turn it off and go elsewhere? Upon completing her tryst she could return to the mall and turn it back on then go home.
There’s no escaping this privacy issue for the iBots...this is bad anyway you look at it.
As others have explained, I am not smart enough to know, the phone only stores the last time a tower or other hotspot was used, not each time it was used. That makes creating a long term map of travel impossible.
Also, for law enforcement purposes, a warrant for the information from the service provider will produce the same thing. I remember years ago a well know preacher in Dallas killed (allegedly) his wife to be with another woman. The strongest evidence against him was his cell phone records showing where he was when. So, this has been available a long time.
I agree this is disinformation.
Divorce lawyers include cell phone records in their discovery requests and this week this was the buzz for a new request to preserve this file as evidence.
Not just for affairs, but how many times did a person go to the bank? which bank?
1) She can’t just turn it off if she needs it to stay in contact and return my calls when I call her.
2) This does make a map...this is a bit of damage control in this thread that’s not 100% accurate.
3) The point is a warrant is a bit harder to get...but as it stands right now in Michigan police have a tool to grab this from an iPhone no warrant needed.
Not that easy. You still have to get past the pass codes. It's also just been revealed that Android phones and devices send location data directly to Google several times an hour. . . not just keeps it on the phone for the phone's Apps' use, never sending it to Apple, as is the case with the iPhone. Apple does not mine this data for anything personal.
Also you CAN turn location services off in iPhones and iPads. You can’t turn off the cell tower ID logging that is recorded. That’s in every phone including Windows7 phones. It’s part of the functionality of the phones. That’s what this is. That’s ALL this is. READ THE ARTICLE. Apple is not mining this data! That is illegal. The author states that as a fact. He also states as a fact that analysis of the signals coming from the devices have never found this data being transmitted. It is merely retained in the phone in a DB file for the purposes of the apps in the phone as he describes.
Why??? The data is NOT as accurate as these breathless claims make out. It is a list of the cell towers locations and WIFI hotspots your phone was connected to as you moved around the areas you went. These can be as much as THREE MILES away from your real location. . . Or more. It is NOT GPS data at all. The author's point was not that he was the "discoverer", but rather that there is nothing "new" here because there was nothing to "discover!!!" This was all well documented (it's called "Core Location") and Apple had moved the file to make it more usable and was providing APIs for developers to USE this data in their apps! Turning it off would cripple many of the functions that make the iPhone work as well as it does!
The author of this article's specialty and his book are about the Forensic use of the data, nothing more. He is not worried about claiming discovery rights for this data... Because it wasn't a discovery.
There is NOTHING SINISTER about this data. It is just the FUD spin that these two ignorant "discoverers" are putting on something that they think they "found" that is making headlines among equally ignorant news people... And paranoid people who are believing the hype!
Sure it makes a map... It plots the cell tower and WIFI locations your phone has connected to around where you've been... What do you expect? It does not put a trail showing your pathway.
As for the Michigan Police? Don't give them permission to search you or your vehicle. They have to arrest you to search you or your vehicle without permission.
Seriously? There's no good use for this data collection, and plenty of ways it could be misused. Would you want the IRS demanding you send them the file to prove any business trips or mileage deductions you've taken? The police calling you in for an interview because you were in the same area at the same time a crime was committed? Apparently at least one police department in Michigan already has the ability to pull saved data off cell phones, so this is not just a theoretical concern.
The author is cavalier because he's in forensics, so from his perspective these data can be useful. From a consumer's perspective, I don't want to be under a forensic microscope - I at least deserve the choice of whether or not I want this information about myself collected.
It's not FUD. The data are being collected, and while it may not be as accurate as GPS coordinates, it's a lot more accurate than your worst-case 3 miles estimate, in most cases. I absolutely stand by my original comment that Apple should immediately release a software update that allows the user to turn off this data collection feature and delete any previously saved logs both on the phones and on any computers they're backed up to.
Good grief. It's unencrypted because most people with iPhones and iPads CHOOSE not to encrypt the iPhone files. It is perfectly possible to encrypt them to 256 bit AES encryption if the user wants it. Most don't worry about it. As I've pointed out the accuracy of this data is REALLY poor... Like a three mile radius for cell tower IDs. . . 300 feet for WIFI hotspots. . . At worst.
Add to which reports today on fox that Android/Google does the same with the added twist the info is tied to the actual device.
iPhone post.
There certainly IS a good use for this data. It's used to assist the GPS in finding locations in seconds rather than minutes. From other reading on the Core Location DB file, it's my understanding that each cell tower's data is replaced at each encounter. It is against the law for Apple to track anyone. . . As pointed out by the article. If Apple were doing it, they would be at risk of severe legal repercussions.
As for IRS seeking confirmation, I have no fear of that as my claimed mileage is legitimate. Isn't yours? Fourth amendment, anyone? The cell towers in the vicinity of the crime scene already have the ID code of your phone. The police have no need of your phone's log. It's proves nothing.
Are you aware that Google Android phones have been found to report their GPS location several times an hour to Google, not just keep a log of cell towers and hotspots in a file on the phone and cached on the phone owner's computer???? What is GOOGLE doing with those data???
That might* be a good reason for the phone to know where it is "now". So might geotagging pictures or getting driving directions from your current location. But none of those reasons require or are benefitted by the phone keeping a log of where it was a week, a month, or a year ago.
*-iPhones and iPads can locate themselves very precisely with GPS in seconds, not minutes, even without the benefit of a 3G signal, so the devices don't even need current cell tower position information to work just fine.
From other reading on the Core Location DB file, it's my understanding that each cell tower's data is replaced at each encounter.
Have you looked at a map of the data stored from a phone? Your understanding does not comport with the information displayed on such a map.
If Apple were doing it, they would be at risk of severe legal repercussions.
I couldn't care less if Apple (or Google, or Microsoft, or Nokia) were collecting the data, although there's no technical reason why they couldn't. It's the potential use by government or private parties who might want to track me, personally, that's the problem.
As for IRS seeking confirmation, I have no fear of that as my claimed mileage is legitimate. Isn't yours?
Of course. I just don't want to have to go through yet another layer of data collection to prove it. Nor do I think the IRS needs to know where I went on vacation or how I spend my Saturday nights because they demand my location data so I can deduct my business expenses, even though my activities in those situations are entirely legal.
Are you aware that Google Android phones have been found to report their GPS location several times an hour to Google, not just keep a log of cell towers and hotspots in a file on the phone and cached on the phone owner's computer???? What is GOOGLE doing with those data???
I was not aware. But I was very young when I learned that just because one person is doing something wrong, it's not okay for someone else to do the same thing. Google should release an update giving Android users the ability to shut off that data collection, just as Apple should.
Dude...you don't know what you're talking about. The devices passes any pinlocks and passcodes. So yes it is that easy.
I agree google has issues too. What I don't know is if Android allows you to turn it off. My friend who has an android swears he can, but I think he's confused.
I know on my windows phone 7 I can turn it off though. I don't know if MS is still recording the info though, but so far it appears Windows phone 7 is the phone to get if you care about privacy.
Michigan police. Well that’s not really an option right now :-( That’s why the ACLU is getting involved.
Two things. Windows phone 7 has an option to turn on this feature for fast finding the phone (by default it is off).
Two why does Apple need to keep a history of it forever and then transfer it from device to device?
True. But isn't that the norm? This is the typical way these threads go when apple has bad press.
In this thread the iBots say it's ok because Apple isn't doing anything with the data (even though WSJ shows the data going back to Apple). Then they say but Google is doing it and tracking it every hour so that's bad, but it's ok for Apple to do similar things.
One of my favorites on another topic is that the Apple Max OSX was the first hacked machine for 3 years in a row at a hacking competition. Yes Linux and Windows both were more secure and took longer to hack. At first they were silent for at least 1 week...then they got their marching orders. The reason it happened is it took a NASA scientist to hack the Mac and it was pre-staged (3 years in a row!!!). As if that makes it any better. It's not like Russia and China doesn't have any smart hackers ya know. But to them it's ok because it was just one uber smart guy that was able to hack the Mac...while it took others more time to hack Linux and Windows. I know it makes no sense but hey it's like you said they remind us of Obama supporters.
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