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To: tsowellfan; TigersEye; John Valentine
Nobody using a US Passport would have been able to enter Pakistan during the time that Obama went there.

Why not? I am quite curious to get your reasoning. At the time, even more than now, Pakistan was a strong US ally in the region. Currently the relationship is under a lot of strain, primarily due to Islamabad not doing much to fight against the growing radicalism in the nation, plus Islamabad's growing ties with Beijing (not to mention Washington's growing ties with Delhi), but back then during the Cold War the relationship was exceptionally strong. The US was Pakistan's main backer, with the former USSR backing India (how things change).

Thus, the premise that 'nobody using a US passport would have been able to enter Pakistan during the time that Obama went there' doesn't seem to be veritable. Maybe you are confusing Pakistan with Iran, another US 'ally' that, following the '79 revolution, made it increasingly difficult for a US passport holder to visit.

This is a problem I always find with the Birther movement ...exposing oneself to easy rebuttal. I think people continue to say things that are patently not correct, and in doing so they give the other side a lot of ammunition. In essence, all a 'debunker' needs to do is focus on the incorrect stuff, and totally IGNORE the other information the Birthers have that is actually true and potentially damaging to the President. The enemy/otherparty/etc will always focus on the low hanging fruit, and the Birther movement has consistently been doing that.

This is the reason that I am extremely happy Trump is following up on this (even though I do not necessarily trust his motives). Trump will do it in a professional way, he will focus on facts and investigate those facts at a comprehensive level, he will not simply parrot stuff he read on email that can be easily rebutted (think of all the 'breaking news' the Birthers have come up with, ranging from fake birth certificates and scanned copies with promises of releasing the real Kenyan BC ...all of them being broken promises), and MOST importantly, presenting a serious face (unlike Orly whoever, who just seemed like a crazy woman). Trump, for all his faults, simply cannot be ignored, and that makes him the biggest proponent for the Birther movement. Finally the issue is being heard, it is being heard from a serious person (not some clown like Orly), it is being heard from a factual basis (not non-existent inabilities to get into Pakistan, or fake Kenyan BCs ....which was interesting because I was born in Kenya, and I could tell in a second that BC that was being shown on FR quite some time back was fake ...and easily fake ...only to be told by 'experts' on FR I didn't know what I was saying even about simple things like when Kenya got its independence). Trump is the biggest threat to the whole Obama BC issue, and I am sure he is causing the Administration some sleepless nights.

However, I do wish the rest of the Birther movement would get the facts straight. Isn't there some sort of central website where all the real facts (and there are a number of interesting facts that have not been properly explained by the Administration) can be put together so that people do not end up posting (rather weird) inaccuracies?

Oh, and it is a good thing Orly is no longer in the picture. The worst thing that can happen now is for her to try and 'join' Trump in his crusade. I have always believed that Orly was working for the other side. She almost single-handedly turned an issue that was serious into a running joke.

The Birther movement has a point that is being openly ignored by the Administration, and Trump is easily putting a lot of extra excess heat on the Administration. He may be the one who makes the Administration have to provide something solid. However, the Birther movement also needs to ensure it keeps its facts straight. It is so easy to discredit something real by focusing on aspects that are silly errors. I also think people hear something on talk radio, or read something on the web, and (thinking it is gospel) go around spreading information that is not true.

Imagine if a leading Birther had said no one could get into Pakistan with a US passport at that time ....the MSM would have torn him or her apart, and the Birther movement would have had an open and public humiliation on national TV. The kingdom lost for the want of a nail.

44 posted on 04/13/2011 2:35:13 AM PDT by spetznaz (Nuclear-tipped Ballistic Missiles: The Ultimate Phallic Symbol)
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To: spetznaz

The place with all the “real” facts is hidden deep underground and requires the secret handshake.Just kidding.

Myself I was very much involved in the blossoming early stages of the birther movement, and I watched the growing army of advancing obots tirelessly invading FR like robotic assassins.

I watched the disappearances of certain FReepers, some that just changed names and maybe some that truly did just stopped coming around.

And I too was attacked in certain ways.

So for the time being I know that the accumulative false history of Obama is safe with very very trustworthy people and that Mr. Trump has patriots of the highest order conferring with him on approaches of tactically removing Obama or exposure to the degree that Obama is compelled to resign.


47 posted on 04/13/2011 2:45:03 AM PDT by Eye of Unk (Communism is a diease, a global failure and endorses Barack Hussein Obama.)
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To: spetznaz
Nobody using a US Passport would have been able to enter Pakistan during the time that Obama went there.

It's unlikey. At the time Pakistan was on the No Travel List and it was highly discouraged.

Obama needs to release his documents and prove his eligibility. Period. There are doubts among the American and people even worse among our men and women uniform. There should never be any doubt among the ranks of our military that their Commander In Chief is legit.

Officer questioning eligibility faces new threats from Army

49 posted on 04/13/2011 2:47:35 AM PDT by tsowellfan (http://www.cafenetamerica.com)
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To: spetznaz

Well ‘threatening’ to run as Independent pretty much destroys whatever Trump’s hunt turns up. Trump has not had to spend a dime on all this campaign publicity over the past life of the current president. So I am NOT seeing this as pure and a good deed that was initially presented.

We have a big enough bully in the White House right now, we do not need to switch riders. Questioning the hidden documentation of a person’s origins does nothing to demonstrate ‘conservative’ principles.


55 posted on 04/13/2011 2:57:10 AM PDT by Just mythoughts
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