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To: decimon

The working hypothesis here is that certain types of gut flora metabolizes lecithin into trimethylamine N-oxide, which in mice was associated with arterial plaque formation.

Choline and betaine are also metabolites of lecithin. “Excess” levels of serum choline “promotes” plaque formation (At tleat according to this writer).

Lecithin and choline are commonly used as feed additives for cattle, poultry and fish because they purportedly promote rapid muscle growth, but “[W]hether muscle from such livestock have higher levels of these compounds remains unknown.” Right...

Humans often use lecthin and choline as dietary supplements. How it is produced - God only knows. Can dietary supplements give you “excessive” serum choline levels promoting plaque formation - probably so is the inference I get from this article. Does lecithin as a dietary supplement keep trimethylamine N-oxide producing gut flora happy and you full of arterial plaques - seems logical to me.

Thus, “juiced up” livestock and dietary supplements may be “juicing up” gut flora that increase serum trimethylamine N-oxide and serum choline that “produce” arterial plaques. Not yet marketed probiotics, such as some type of yougurt, may change the gut flora to reduce trimethylamine N-oxide production.

Solution today: stay away from “juiced up” meat and get your vitamins (lecithin and choline) in a naturally occurring form while they are still contained in plants and animals, the less cooked the better - Quarter Pounders seven days a week will not keep you healthy and and vitamin pills ontop of that might make you worse than no vitamins at all. There is no free lunch, and that includes dietary supplements.


13 posted on 04/08/2011 2:46:59 PM PDT by frithguild (The Democrat Party Brand - Big Government protecting Entrenched Interests from Competition)
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To: frithguild

Excellent summary! Thanks so much.


14 posted on 04/08/2011 2:56:49 PM PDT by mombonn (God is looking for spiritual fruit, not religious nuts.)
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To: frithguild

where do you propose we get meat that is not “juiced up”? There’s not enough wild meat to feed all the people


16 posted on 04/08/2011 3:15:17 PM PDT by mamelukesabre (Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum (If you want peace prepare for war))
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To: frithguild; mombonn
"Solution today: stay away from “juiced up” meat and get your vitamins (lecithin and choline) in a naturally occurring form while they are still contained in plants and animals, the less cooked the better - Quarter Pounders seven days a week will not keep you healthy and and vitamin pills ontop of that might make you worse than no vitamins at all."

No, not quite. The connection with supposedly "juiced up" meant was speculative. But the connection with fruit, vegetables and fish was not.

"Healthy amounts of choline, betaine and TMAO are found in many fruits, vegetables and fish."

A "healthy amount" would depend on how much was in the specific vegetable and how much you ate.

About the meat, "...whether muscle from such livestock have higher levels of these compounds remains unknown."

Avoiding the Quarter Pounders and filling up on vegetables instead may have precisely the opposite effect you intend.

That's just taking the comments here at face value, which may not be justified.

49 posted on 04/10/2011 8:38:52 PM PDT by mlo
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