There...does that help?
Posted on 03/22/2011 4:09:49 AM PDT by bkepley
No, I was not Raptured even though I put some perfume on and wore my silkiest nightie... wait, you didn’t say ravished, right?! (((giggle, giggle)))
There...does that help?
What is the Greek word rendered as “taken” in the KJV in the Matthew 24 passage you quote?
The word is 'παραλαμβάνω', used 49 times in the NT in a variety of contexts:
Where are you taking this?
Exactly. Excellent point, Quix.
IN CONTEXT, 1Ths 4:13-18 says,
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
This is a description of the second coming and with it the general resurrection. There is no rapture. As for Mt 24, please simply keep reading on to chapter 25. Ch 24-25 is a description of the Judgement, where the sheep are separated from the goats (Mt 25:32).
Lord, have mercy. Folks should really beware of INDIVIDUAL verses of scripture quoted by INDIVIDUAL people, be they John Nelson Darby or whomever.
Next thing you know, you’re petting rattlesnakes and drinking strychnine.
What Is the “Rapture?”
by V. Glenn McCoy
A young Christian mother recently came into my office with her two children and said, “Will you please explain to my children what the ‘Rapture’ is?” Her children had been exposed to the “Rapture” through some of their friends and they were left confused. Most of us have seen bumper stickers that refer to the “Rapture” by saying something to the effect: “In case of Rapture, this car will be empty.” Those who have not been indoctrinated by the proponents of this doctrine scratch their heads in wonder as to what this could mean. Denominational programs on television present the “Rapture” as a doctrine that all should believe. Members of the Lord’s church are not always prepared to discuss this subject with their religious neighbors. Although there are some variations in beliefs about the “Rapture,” in this article, we will discuss the most commonly held views.
Not a Bible Subject
Many are surprised to learn that the “Rapture” is not a biblical subject. The Scriptures say nothing about it. It is a concept that has been around for some time, but was highly promoted by Hal Lindsey in his book, The Late Great Planet Earth, first published in 1970. According to the proponents of the theory, at the end of the “church age” Jesus will raise the righteous dead and take them, along with the righteous who are living, to a special place, presumably like heaven, for seven years where they will be given rewards and positions. They teach that those people who remain on the earth will not know where the saints have gone. They will realize they are gone, but will not be able to explain their disappearance. They will see the open graves that have been abandoned by the resurrected bodies, but they will have no explanation. While this “Rapture” is going on in heaven for seven years, the “great tribulation” supposedly takes place on the earth. This is to happen primarily during the last three and one-half years of the seven-year period. During that time there will be fear, anxiety, and death on a massive scale. Further, those who advocate the “Rapture” teach that at the end of the seven-year period the righteous will go to Jerusalem with Christ and reign with Him for a thousand years. Then, at the end of the thousand-year reign the wicked will be resurrected and condemned to eternal punishment.
What Is Wrong With the “Rapture?”
Is there a Bible basis for the “Rapture” doctrine? No! Will there ever be such a thing as the “Rapture?” Absolutely not! Is there a conflict between “Rapture” teaching and the plain teaching of the Bible? Absolutely! Please notice some of the things wrong with the teaching of the “Rapture.”
1. The “Rapture” requires too many comings of Jesus. They have Him coming the first time to take the righteous away for seven years. They have Him coming again seven years later to go to Jerusalem to reign a thousand years. Then at the end of the thousand years they have Him raising the wicked and judging them. Jude 14-15 pictures Jesus coming to execute judgment on the ungodly. So, according to the “Rapture” proponents, another coming of the Lord is required for judgment upon the wicked.
How does all this fit with Bible teaching? The answer is, not at all. The Bible says that when Jesus comes he will execute judgment “upon all,” not some now and some later, but all at one time. His coming will not be in stages with years between the comings. “Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him” (Jude 14-15).
2. The proponents of the “Rapture” say that only a part of humanity will see Jesus when He comes the second time. Only the righteous dead and the righteous living will see Him. The remainder of the living will not see Him for at least seven years. Those among the unrighteous dead will not see Him until the thousand-year reign is finished. This cannot possibly be correct because Revelation 1:7 states that when Jesus comes “Every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him.”
3. The “Rapture” is in conflict with Matthew 25:31-46. Unlike the “Rapture” theory, Matthew 25 has “all the nations,” the wicked and the good being judged at the same time in the same judgment. The “Rapture” has some of the dead being raised while others are left in the grave. However, the Bible says that Jesus will come to judge all the living and dead, the wicked and the good, all in the same judgment. There will be a great separation. The wicked are placed on the left and the righteous on the right. Those on the left will be sentenced to punishment in hell, while those on the right will get to enjoy the bliss of heaven. There is no room in Matthew 25 for a “Rapture” period, or the “great tribulation,” or the thousand years between the resurrection of the righteous and the wicked.
Paul states in 2 Timothy 4:1: “I charge thee there-fore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom.” Paul said that Jesus will judge those who are living and those who are dead at His coming. Matthew 25:31-46 tells us that the judgment will contain both the righteous and the wicked. Therefore, all the wicked who are dead as well as those who are living will be judged. At the same time, all the righteous who are living as well as those who are dead will be judged. In contrast, the “Rapture” has Jesus coming with no universal judgment, with only part of the dead being raised, while others are left in their graves.
4. The “Rapture” theory is in contradiction to the clear and positive teaching of the Lord in John 5:28-29: “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” While the “Rapture” has multiple judgments, the Bible says that all humanity will be judged at the same time, the good as well as the wicked.
5. The “Rapture” does not fit the Bible teaching of the “last day.” “This is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. ... No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day” (John 6:39-40, 44). “Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day” (John 6:54). “He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day” (John 12:48). Jesus taught in John 5:28-29 that the resurrection of both the good and evil will take place in the same hour. That resurrection and judgment will take place in the last day. The “Rapture” theory has not just days but a thousand years separating the resurrection and judgment of the good and evil.
6. The “Rapture” is in conflict with 2 Thessalonians 1:6-10: “Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.”
In the above passage Paul spoke of two groups. The first group is composed of those who have been troubled and persecuted. These are the obedient. The other group is described as those who do not know God and have not obeyed the gospel. He also talks about two compensations. To the afflicted He will give rest, but to the disobedient He will bring punishment. The rest for the righteous and punishment for the disobedient will occur in “that day” when Jesus comes with His angels. The “Rapture” does not have the wicked receiving their punishment in “that day” as Paul declared, but a thousand years later! According to the “Rapture” doctrine, the righteous will be in the air and the wicked will still be on the earth.
7. The “Rapture” conflicts with 2 Peter 3:10-14: “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.”
This passage refers to the Second Coming of Jesus. When that happens, the earth and all in it will be burned up. But, the “Rapture” demands a continuation of the earth after the Lord comes. They say the earth will continue seven more years until Jesus returns to Jerusalem, and then a thousand more years after that. They teach that the earth will be renovated to be the resting-place for those who are not among the fortunate 144,000 who will be in heaven. Compare this far-fetched theory with the Bible that clearly says the earth and all in it will be burned up at the Lord’s Second Coming.
Two Primary Passages
There are two primary passages that the advocate for the “Rapture” use in an attempt to support this imaginative theory. Neither Rapture nor the teaching of it is to be found in either one. They both refer to the Second Coming of Christ with no reference whatsoever to a “Rapture.”
The first passage “Rapture” advocates use to support their theory is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17. One does not have to look very long to realize that this passage it no way verifies the “Rapture.” The proponents of the “Rapture” say that Jesus will come in secret, but this passage tells us that when Jesus comes it will not be in secret. “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of God” (v. 16). The coming of Christ mentioned in this passage is the same as the one mentioned in Revelation 1:7: “Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him.” There is no secret coming discussed here. These Scriptures say that there will be shout, the voice of the archangel, the trump of God, and every eye seeing Jesus when He comes again.
The second passage that the advocates of the “Rapture” use is 1 Corinthians 15:50-58. It is equally lacking in support for the theory. Verse 52 dispels the idea of a secret coming when it tells us that the sound of a trumpet will accompany the Lord. There is more in this passage that does not fit the “Rapture.” When Jesus comes, immortality will begin (v. 53). Death will be destroyed at His coming, “swallowed up in victory” (v. 54). In contrast, “Rapture” proponents say that life and death will continue on earth during the time the righteous are with Jesus. These passages do not verify the “Rapture,” but in fact, they repudiate this false doctrine.
The theory of the “Rapture” is false because it is not taught in the Bible. It came from the mind of men.
The word "trinity" isn't in the Bible either...but I am assuming you believe in that. Correct?
The concept of the rapture IS taught in scripture. What varies, depending on the way you interpret prophecy...Daniel's 70th Week...The Book of Revelation...Et Al...is the timing of the event.
However...to deny the event itself is to 1) Deny scripture altogether or 2) Spiritualize scripture to such an extent as to make ALL scripture a mockery...for if "you" can spiritualize something so plainly written...this allows others to do the same (which they have done...in spades).
The event, which in English is called "The Rapture" is seen in 1 Thess 4:13-18. It is very obvious Paul is speaking of an actual event.
In that event...he plainly says that not all will sleep (die)...but that some will still be alive when Jesus returns and they will be changed (1 Cor 15:52...same event).
Paul CLEARLY teaches that those alive will put on immortality (in Corinthians) and they will be CAUGHT UP (1 Thess).
Now...in the Latin Vulgate...translated from the Greek by St Jerom, he translates the words "Caught Up" (in the KJV)...from the Greek (harpazo)..."Rapiemur."
"deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus "
So...perhaps you have some aversion to the term Rapture. So be it. All it is is an English variant of the word in Latin...which is a TRANSLATION of the word from its original in Greek...Harpazo. And that...my FRiend...you cannot deny is in the scripture. It is NOT a creation of man. You may can argue the timing is a creation of man (and it is a non-essential...and we would disagree)...but the fact a "catching up" is in teh scripture...the fact that a rapiemur is in the scripture is beyond debate.
May I also suggest that if you have problems with words that are transliterated...then you probably have a problem with the word "Jesus." After all..."Jesus" wasn't His name. It's what you and I call Him...but not what Mary....John...Peter...James...or Paul called Him. It's a transliteration...just like rapture.
The Ruse of the Rapture
by Dudley Ross Spears
Maybe you have seen the bumper sticker that reads, “In case the Rapture occurs, this car will be driverless.” With tensions building in the Middle East, expectations are being sharpened in those who believe that the Rapture is about to take place. The Rapture is an intriguing topic and we will study it today - please stay tuned. First, let me mention some other matters.
The doctrine of “The Rapture” is espoused by a large segment of the Protestant denominational world. Possibly you have listened to your own “Pastor” speak of it as if it is certainly taught in the Bible. It might surprise some to know that the term “Rapture” is not in the Bible. And it is also surprising that even the idea of a “Rapture” is not in the Bible. The doctrine of a secret rapture is part of a very serious defection from Bible teaching known as dispensationalism or premillennialism. It is a deceptive set of doctrines that lead many astray.
But just what is meant by “The Rapture?” Let’s let an authority tell us. From Mr. Hal Lindsey’s book, “The Late Great Planet Earth,” comes this definitive statement. “Someday, a day that only God knows, Jesus Christ is coming to take away all those who believe in Him. He is coming to meet all true believers in the air. Without benefit of science, space suits, or interplanetary rockets, there will be those who will be transported into a glorious place more beautiful, more awesome, than we can possibly comprehend. Earth and all its thrills, excitement, and pleasures will be nothing in contrast to this great event.
“It will be the living end. The ultimate trip.” (page 126).
Mr. Lindsey is an authority among dispensationalists and premillennialists. He tells us that the word “Rapture” means “to snatch away or take out.” The dictionary uses words such as ecstasy to describe it. This taking out of the world is supposed to be in direct relation to a series of events that will culminate with a return of Christ (with those taken away in the rapture) to launch a thousand year reign on earth with His headquarters in Jerusalem. All of this is the result of speculative fantasy and has absolutely no basis in the Bible.
Some have tried to figure this time table out and have set dates when the rapture was to begin. Who can forget the stir caused by Mr. Edgar C. Whisenant, right here in our own community, when his book was widely distributed. That book, “88 Reasons Why The Rapture Will Be In 1988” predicted that Jesus would come back and snatch His own people away. Either the Lord had no people in our area, or the prediction was false. The latter is true — there was no rapture in 1988. In fact there never will be one. No man can set God’s clock.
Mr. Lindsey also tried to find the date for the rapture. In his book he commented on Jesus’ statement, “Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place” (Matthew 24:34 NASB), and said, “What generation? Obviously, in context, the generation that would see the signs - chief among them the rebirth of Israel. A generation in the Bible is something like forty years. If this is a correct deduction, then within forty years or so of 1948 (the date he assigned as the birth of Israel), all these things could take place.” (Page 43). That computes to 1988 — but this is 1990 and none of the things mentioned in Matthew 24 have occurred. One simple answer to it all is that the signs of Matthew 24 happened a long time ago when Jerusalem was destroyed by the crunching power of the imperial army of Rome. Mr. Lindsey joins those who have erroneously tried to set God’s clock.
The error of this Rapture theory is quite obvious. Those who hold the error claim the Lord will take the saints off to some exotic rendezvous somewhere in the clouds. A few years ago a man said to me, “I am thankful that when the tribulation begins, I won’t be here.” I asked, “Where will you be?” He said, “With the Lord in the Rapture.” I asked further, “Where will that be?” He answered, “Somewhere in the heavens where all is beautiful.” I asked, “Will that be better than heaven?” He thought a little and answered, “About the same, I suppose.” “But,” I replied, “you will then have to return for the battle of Armageddon and then finally live with Christ on earth during the millennium.” Think about this a moment — the Lord allegedly returns secretly, takes all the saints away for a short period of either 3 1/2 years or a full 7 years (depending on whose theory of the Rapture you believe), come back and engage in the most awful carnal warfare of history, then go to Jerusalem and set up a millennial earthly kingdom. I like what the man said who heard all this and gibed, “If I ever get headed off this planet in the right direction, I certainly don’t intend to return to it and fight a war.”
The doctrine of this imaginary Rapture doesn’t fit plain Bible teaching relative to the next appearance of Christ. Consider this: where will the Lord take the believers during the seven year period? He cannot take them somewhere in space, or to another planet. Neither can He take them somewhere on earth in a secret hideaway, because Peter tells us that the universe will be totally destroyed when the Lord comes the next time. Listen: “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief; in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements (planets, marginal reading) shall be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are therein shall be burned up” (II Peter 3:10).
This statement clearly shows that when the Lord returns it will be anything but silent and secret. It will be noisy and open. But the fact is there is really no place on earth or in space where the raptured can go. There is really only one place left and that is Heaven itself. The word the rapturists use for their doctrine is the verb “caught up” found in I Thessalonians 4:16, 17. It reads, “For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first, then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up (Greek harpadzo) in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
If you didn’t have a pet theory to defend how could you ever conclude that the being “caught up” with the Lord would be only a temporary Rapture? And you would never conclude that the place was anything other than Heaven itself. So, the doctrine fails the first test the Bible has for it.
This fictitious thing called the Rapture is allegedly to follow what is called “the Great Tribulation.” Have you ever wondered where these preachers get all these terms? Anyway, they tell us that just about the time when this tribulation begins the countdown has also begun. Allow me to read once more from Mr. Lindsey. “Most prophecies which have not yet been fulfilled concern events which will develop shortly before the beginning of and during this seven-year countdown. The general time of this seven-year period couldn’t begin until the Jewish people re-establish their nation in their ancient homeland of Palestine.” (Page 32).
This is another figmentary imagination from an hyperactive speculative mind. God has made no promise to Israel concerning the land of Palestine which has not long since been fulfilled. There is not a single promise today that is made to Jewish people that is not equally made to every race of mankind under the heavens. Can you think of one promise God has given one nation that does not include all nations? If so, what is it? Every promise God made in regard to restoring Israel to the promised land has been fulfilled. Listen to Joshua 21:43. “So the Lord gave to Israel all the land of which He had sworn to give to their fathers and they took possession of it.” And verse 45 concludes, “Not a word failed of any good thing which the Lord had spoken to the house of Israel. All came to pass.” That seals it, does it not?
This theory also claims that there will be an increased amount of wickedness and the conditions just preceding the coming of Christ will be terrible - much like what is about to happen in the Middle East now. Matthew 24:20-22 is cited. “And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on a sabbath; for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved.”
This passage cannot refer to any phase of “the Rapture.” According to that doctrine the saints won’t be on earth to experience any tribulation. The passage refers to the destruction of Jerusalem and thus they were to pray that their flight from the burning city not be on the Sabbath day or in winter when travel was restricted.
Finally, Jesus taught His disciples in parables. In Matthew 13:24-30 He taught them about the kingdom by using an example from a farmer. He said that while a farmer slept, an enemy (and he means the Devil) sowed tares in his wheat field. When this became evident the reapers (angels) requested permission to remove the tares. But the owner (who represents God) said, “Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather up first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn.”
Jesus said the harvest is “the end of the world” (verse 39). The tares are the “sons of the evil one” (verse 38). That means that the wicked are to be gather up first. But the doctrine of the Rapture has the saints being gathered first. The Scofield Bible makes this comment on verse 30. “At the end of the age, the tares are set apart for burning, but first the wheat is gathered into the barn.” The Scofield Bible is oriented in all the comments in it toward this false view of the end of time. Which would you rather accept as fact — Christ or Scofield? Christ or Lindsey?
The doctrine of the rapture is a ruse — not a reality. It promises things God has never mentioned. It offers a false hope, denies plain Bible teaching, and is contradictory to the New Testament teaching on the end of time. Reject it and accept only what you can read and understand from plain language in your own Bible.
Sorry...you are wrong. As I pointed out to another FRiend: We can certainly debate the timing of the event in 1 Thess 4...and 1 Cor 15....and I could spend a couple of hours on the phone showing you how the two events (this event and the actual second coming) have to be different. HOWEVER...that is not the point.
You are saying: THERE IS NO RAPTURE.
That is absolutely false. Even if, as my post-trib brethren believe, this event occurs AT the time of the second coming...and even if this event IS the second coming, as you say it is...it is STILL a rapture. Why?
Because, in context and with scripture supporting scripture (1 Cor 15)..."We shall not all sleep...but we shall all be changed." AND..."Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up..."
Now...the word RAPTURE is simply from the latin word for "caught up"...rapiemur.
So...you are saying there is no "rapture"...yet all theword "rapture" means is "caught up"...and IN CONTEXT (you bold letters)...it means CAUGHT UP ALIVE. Right?
That's a rapture. That's a catching up. Even IF it is the second coming...it still is a rapture because 1 Thess 4:17 says "CAUGHT UP" and the word in Latin is rapiemer and people just transliterate it "Rapture."
When was the last time you called Jesus...Iesu? When was the last time you called Jesus...Yeshua? If you call Him Jesus MORE than you call him Yeshua...then you are also transliterating a name. It's a translation of a word found in scripture...NOTHING MORE.
The timing of the event is where the debate comes in...but to say the event doesn't exist is to deny the words "CAUGHT UP"..."rapiemer."
But I take it from your posts that you are a preterist or partial-preterist so there’s really no point, is there?
Worse, I came from decades of Dispensationalism into the light of Amillennialism. Theology by Prooftext can lead a person anywhere, a comprehensive and holistic view of Scripture leads to the Truth.
Nero was the Antichrist, there’s no 7-year Tribulation and today’s Israel isn’t significant in Bible prophecy?
John talks about antichrists so I am not so quick to look for one real bad guy. There are interesting arguments for and against Nero, I'm not going to say that he wasn't a Man of Sin since he certainly did fill many of the requirements, then again so have many other historical leaders and popes. Will there be a future "Man of Sin"? There could, but I don't see the mechanism that would lead to the one the Futurists describe. In fact, I don't think that the Futurists have a consistent definition to even know who to look for so trying to play Where's Waldo even with the assumption that there is a future über Man of Sin is futile.
For the record, I won't break bread with a Full Preterist who doesn't believe in a future Parousia. The Post-Mills have an interesting argument that unfortunately collapses on a late dating of Revelation and other arguments that the Futurist can't use. Which leaves the Amillennial position, and other than drive-by heckling, I have yet to see any assaults on view.
It was Jerome’s Vulgate that translated the original Greek verb harpazô used by Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, which is usually translated into English with the phrase "caught up." The leading Greek Lexicon says that harpazô means "snatch, seize, i.e., take suddenly and vehemently." This is the same meaning of the Latin word rapio "to seize, snatch, tear away."
Anyone trying to claim that the concept of the rapture is not in scripture only shows their ignorance of the translations of original scripture.
I’ll post it a second time just special for you.
The rapture is in scripture. The original word hrpazo was used by Paul.
It was Jerome’s Vulgate that translated the original Greek verb harpazô used by Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, which is usually translated into English with the phrase "caught up." The leading Greek Lexicon says that harpazô means "snatch, seize, i.e., take suddenly and vehemently." This is the same meaning of the Latin word rapio "to seize, snatch, tear away."
Anyone trying to claim that the concept of the rapture is not in scripture only shows their ignorance of the translations of original scripture.
Oh Well!!!!!.......guess I missed it.
Some things at issue were the Deity of Christ, His identity with the Father, and the Trinity among others. The theological formulation of the Trinity must be deduced from the Bible, it is not explicitly stated even though the idea is pervasive in Scriptures, and the Church universally acknowledges it. But that wasn't always the case. So things “develop”.
Another interesting idea is that one can see the gradual realization by the Apostles and first Christians that gentiles could be included in the Church. Remember Peter's response to the Lord in his vision of the sheet. And consider Paul's statements about consulting with the Elders in Jerusalem, not for permission but for confirmation. And don't forget that Peter wrote that Paul said things which were hard to understand. It is very evident that growth in understanding took place amongst the Apostles and the early Church, and that it is still taking place today.
Now, Chilaism, which is not identical with dispensationalism, is extremely early, and admittedly controversial. Dispensationalism, which is chilaistic, did not arise de novo in the nineteenth century, but that is when Darby and others gave it its expression in the form we are familiar with from Schofield (for example). Millenialism, as an idea, is part and parcel of Dispensationalism. There is a 1000 year reign mentioned in the Bible. Literal or not, it is there. But Millenialism has a separate existence from Dispensationalism. Remember the roof-toppers of 1000 A.D? They were not Dispensationalists. And, possibly the most important aspect of Dispensationalism is the idea that Israel and the Church are separate entities. Other theologies don't make this clear, or reject it. But it has important implications beyond Millenialism.
It's important to understand that Dispensationalism does answer some questions, leaves others standing, and is not completely satisfactory. But that can be said for Covenant theology as well. Phillip Schaff wrote that all the orthodox denominations have had some positive contribution to the Church's understanding. Which I think is a more helpful approach than denominational partisanship.
One doesn't surrender one’s faith by critically and fairly evaluating another theology. Even Cornelius Van Til I think allowed that.
I know this is rambling and I'm covering too much ground. But it's all to the point of saying that Millenialism in neither new nor silly. Even though there are new and silly ideas about it.
The word "rapture" is found in the Bible, if you have the Latin Vulgate produced by Jerome in the early 400s. The Vulgate was the main Bible of the medieval Western Church until the Reformation.
Surely you are familiar with the phrase that it’s better to remain silent and be thought………then to speak and prove?
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