Posted on 02/06/2011 9:49:00 AM PST by Victor
The Riverside trade name was part of the J.Savage family of guns and were manufactured in the early 1900’s.
Shotgun shells are measured after firing, because the chamber has to be long enough to let the crimp unfold completely. So a 3” unfired shell will chamber in a 2 3/4” gun but should not be fired, because excessive pressure could result.
If it was made in the ‘30’s (which is likely) it should be ok with 2 3/4” lead shot target loads, assuming it locks up tight, and the barrel is not bulged or pitted inside. A majority of these guns had full (tight) chokes and relatively soft steel barrels (by today’s standards) so steel shot can score and bulge the barrel.
A damascus gun is more likely from the late 1800’s and would have a twist pattern like a barber pole around the barrel. Do not fire it if it has this characteristic.
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Some Damascus and also twist barrels were made in the smokless powder era, and were proofed for such use. These tended to be high end guns such as Parkers, or english bespoke guns like Purdey and Holland and Holland.
Your gun will not fall into this catagory. Being a double it was sort of the equivalent of the Savage Stevens 310 and 315 guns.
As I said previously, if it is modern fluid steel, it should be OK with 2 3/4" lead target rounds.
Do look for a choke marking, buckshot will not pattern well out of a full choke barrel. Also, keep in mind that ammo in the 30's used card wads, not the current plastic cup type, so any choke from that period will shoot tighter with modern ammo.
Going to a decent gunsmith would not be a bad idea. A shoulder fired pipebomb isn't fun, just ask Eaker.
Damascus barrel are not OK with ANY modern ammo. NO NOT FIRE ANYTHING from a weapon w/ a Damascus barrel!!!!!! EVER!!!!!
Probably not. Consult a competent gunsmith, if you're smart. If not, you could easily lose an eye...if not worse.
My Father was given a gun just about identical to the one you have except it was marked “Shapleigh Hardwar Co. St. Louis, MO”
The gun was given to him by an old WWII Army buddy when we visited them around 1960.
Daddy wrote to the hardware company just using the name and St. Louis Mo as the address. Surprisingly, he got an answer. He was told that the hardware company was out of business but that the gun was made by Stevens at Chickopee Mass.
The gun was actually very well made considering it was a trade gun made for various companies. My older Brother had it and now his Son has it.
It should be safe with 2 3/4 inch shells as long as it is in good condition. It does not have damascus barrels.
+1
Great for knives, piss poor for guns (except for decorative overlays NOT on the barrel).
However, based on the description, I wonder if a shotgun made in the 30s would have Damascus barrels? That is more common before the late 1800s.
The buckshot being heavier will not fly as fast using the same dram equivalent of powder. A more useful comparison would be a 2.75 inch 00 buckshot shell compared to a 3.00 inch buckshot shell.
L
Damascus was available as an option into the 30’s on high grade guns. There are gun houses in Britain that will reproof damascus barrels to certify they are safe for lower pressure modern ammo. It’s pricey.
Most shotgun round average 9000-11,000 psi, but recipes are available for handloaders down to the 5000 psi level. I have a load at 5600 for older 16 gauges I like.
Also, “damascus” is kind of a catchall description. The best layered barrels were damascus, cheaper ones were “laminated” and “twist”, which were less labor intensive and hence cheaper.
Interestingly, a article in The Double Gun Journal assembled a whole bunch of “wall hanger” twist barrel guns and fired the (remotely) with modern SAAMI proof loads (18,000 psi) and didn’t get any of them to blow up. Lot’s of cracked stocks, sprung hardware but no catastrophic failures. Still don’t try it at home.
How is 1 1/8th ounce of buckshot heavier than 1 1/8th ounce #6? ;)
You sure those weights are the same? The poster didn’t mention that.
While we’re sort of on the subject, what’s the effective range, velocity and hitting power of a 12ga. 2.75” round? I have a Winchester Model 1200 Defender (pump). I’m using #00 alternating with slug. Thanks in advance.
Maybe with “field loads”(light or low brass shells) Don’t shoot “duck and pheasant loads” (Heavy or high brass shells)Through it!
I use both of these low recoil loads in my 18.5" barreled 1902 Iver Johnson Arms and Cycle Works "Champion" model (12 gauge) with great results... This one is my "truck gun" because I have less than $50 in the entire gun, sling, and ammo load of 6 round on the buttstock... If it gets stolen, I'm not out a bunch of money.
Regards,
Raven6
Take it to a qualified gunsmith for an examination, but I think, based on the age of the gun, you shouldn’t be using 3”, or even ‘hot’ 2.75”.
It is a Stevens shotgun. I believe that they made the Riverside double through the early 1930s. I have a Riverside double with outside hammers made in the ‘20s. DO NOT shoot 3” or steel shot in it. Older shotguns like this were called “hardware store” guns and were low priced shotguns for the common man. For safety reasons, I only fire 2 3/4” black powder loads in mine when I go dove or quail hunting because of the lower pressures produced by black powder in the barrel than is made by using smokeless powder.
Although the 3 inch shells will chamber they should not be used. The chamber is actually 2.75 inches to accommodate the shell after it's fired. If you measure an unfired 2.75 inch shell you will note it actually measures about 2.25 inches but opens up to 2.75 inches after firing. The 3 inch unfired shell measures about 2.50 inches thus the reason it fits. However after firing, the shell will open to 3 inches and go beyond the chamber and into the barrel making a tight fit for the pellets to squeeze through thus raising the pressures to dangerous levels.
I still use mine (mine does not have damascus barrels) although I'm not a big fan of side by side doubles. I'm not sure these were ever even made with damascus but it's possible. Google damascus barrels for photos. Once you see a damascus barrel you'll know immediately if you have one.
NO!
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