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To: NormsRevenge; steelyourfaith; Grampa Dave; SierraWasp; tubebender; Carry_Okie; Brad's Gramma; ...
I want to include this:

**************************************EXCERPT*******************************************

CONCLUSIONS AND DISCUSSION

It is claimed that GCMs provide credible quantitative estimates of future climate change, particularly at continental scales and above. Examining the local performance of the models at 55 points, we found that local projections do not correlate well with observed measurements. Furthermore, we found that the correlation at a large spatial scale, i.e. the contiguous USA, is worse than at the local scale.

However, we think that the most important question is not whether GCMs can produce credible estimates of future climate, but whether climate is at all predictable in deterministic terms. Several publications, a typical example being Rial et al. (2004), point out the difficulties that the climate system complexity introduces when we attempt to make predictions. “Complexity” in this context usually refers to the fact that there are many parts comprising the system and many interactions among these parts. This observation is correct, but we take it a step further. We think that it is not merely a matter of high dimensionality, and that it can be misleading to assume that the uncertainty can be reduced if we analyse its “sources” as nonlinearities, feedbacks, thresholds, etc., and attempt to establish causality relationships. Koutsoyiannis (2010) created a toy model with simple, fully-known, deterministic dynamics, and with only two degrees of freedom (i.e. internal state variables or dimensions); but it exhibits extremely uncertain behaviour at all scales, including trends, fluctuations, and other features similar to those displayed by the climate. It does so with a constant external forcing, which means that there is no causality relationship between its state and the forcing. The fact that climate has many orders of magnitude more degrees of freedom certainly perplexes the situation further, but in the end it may be irrelevant; for, in the end, we do not have a predictable system hidden behind many layers of uncertainty which could be removed to some extent, but, rather, we have a system that is uncertain at its heart.

Do we have something better than GCMs when it comes to establishing policies for the future? Our answer is yes: we have stochastic approaches, and what is needed is a paradigm shift. We need to recognize the fact that the uncertainty is intrinsic, and shift our attention from reducing the uncertainty towards quantifying the uncertainty (see also Koutsoyiannis et al., 2009a). Obviously, in such a paradigm shift, stochastic descriptions of hydroclimatic processes should incorporate what is known about the driving physical mechanisms of the processes. Despite a common misconception of stochastics as black-box approaches whose blind use of data disregard the system dynamics, several celebrated examples, including statistical thermophysics and the modelling of turbulence, emphasize the opposite, i.e. the fact that stochastics is an indispensable, advanced and powerful part of physics. Other simpler examples (e.g. Koutsoyiannis, 2010) indicate how known deterministic dynamics can be fully incorporated in a stochastic framework and reconciled with the unavoidable emergence of uncertainty in predictions.

h/t to WUWT reader Don from Paradise

2 posted on 12/05/2010 9:51:56 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach ( Support Geert Wilders)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

From the paper:

“We wish to thank the three anonymous reviewers, whose both strongly positive and strongly negative comments were important to us: the former for encouraging us and the latter for making us more confident that we did not err, as well as for forcing us to improve the presentation significantly.”

Twisting the knife a bit.


5 posted on 12/06/2010 12:15:41 AM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; Whenifhow; TenthAmendmentChampion; Clive; scripter; Darnright; WL-law; ...
Thanx Ernest_at_the_Beach !

 


Beam me to Planet Gore !

7 posted on 12/06/2010 3:54:08 AM PST by steelyourfaith (ObamaCare Death Panels: a Final Solution to the looming Social Security crisis ?)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

big bump


8 posted on 12/06/2010 5:36:09 AM PST by GeronL
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
We need to recognize the fact that the uncertainty is intrinsic, and shift our attention from reducing the uncertainty towards quantifying the uncertainty (see also Koutsoyiannis et al., 2009a).

I disagree. We need to learn more about the impulse response of the system, and for very good reason. Should there be a volcano, solar eruption, or other event, knowing what to do and where not to waste our resources would help make sure there is adequate food. THAT is a laudable goal. Pretending that one can eventually predict the future when there are so many sources of such events is simply a fraudulent use of money. My bet is that they'll learn more with that approach too.

13 posted on 12/06/2010 6:36:37 AM PST by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to manage by central planning.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Yet another well written article that questions the poor modeling techniques used by those that attempt weather and climate forecasting.


15 posted on 12/06/2010 10:47:33 AM PST by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned....)
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