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To: SunkenCiv

Actually, most modern scientists no longer consider Darwin’s specific evolutionary model to be valid anymore, and haven’t for some time. The most recent discoveries (within the last 20-30 years or so) tend to support the “punctuated equilibrium” theory, where long periods of relative stasis are overturned by dramatic shifts in morphology over short periods of time.


5 posted on 11/12/2010 8:32:29 PM PST by Little Pig (Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici.)
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To: Little Pig

They were talking about the punctuated equilibrium theory many years ago. It makes sense. CHANGE drives evolution. When things are relatively stable, there is no biological incentive favoring new forms.


7 posted on 11/12/2010 9:01:25 PM PST by ZULU (No nation which tried to tolerate Islam escaped Islamization.)
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To: Little Pig
Actually, most modern scientists no longer consider Darwin’s specific evolutionary model to be valid anymore, and haven’t for some time. The most recent discoveries (within the last 20-30 years or so) tend to support the “punctuated equilibrium” theory, where long periods of relative stasis are overturned by dramatic shifts in morphology over short periods of time.

Walter Remine notes that no version of evolution hangs together logically at this point so that what evolutionists generally try to serve up is a "smorgasbord" (Remine's term) of bits and pieces from each of them.

The original Darwinian vision of gradualistic evolution is flatly refuted by the fossil record (Darwinian evolution demanded that the vast bulk of ALL fossils be intermediates) and by the findings of population genetics, particularly the Haldane dilemma and the impossible time requirements for spreading genetic changes through any sizeable herd of animals.

Consider what Gould and other punk-eekers are saying. Punc-eek amounts to a claim that all meaningful evolutionary change takes place in peripheral areas, amongst tiny groups of animals which develop some genetic advantage, and then move out and overwhelm, outcompete, and replace the larger herds. They are claiming that this eliminates the need to spread genetic change through any sizeable herd of animals and, at the same time, is why we never find intermediate fossils (since there are never enough of these CHANGELINGS to leave fossil evidence).

Obvious problems with punctuated equilibria include, minimally:

1. It is a pure pseudoscience seeking to explain and actually be proved by a lack of evidence rather than by evidence (all the missing intermediate fossils). Similarly, Cotton Mather claimed that the fact that nobody had ever seen or heard a witch was proof they were there (if you could SEE them, they wouldn't BE witches...) This kind of logic is less inhibiting than the logic they used to teach in American schools.

2. PE amounts to a claim that inbreeding is the most major source of genetic advancement in the world. Apparently Steve Gould never saw Deliverance...

3. PE requires these tiny peripheral groups to conquer vastly larger groups of animals millions if not billions of times, which is like requiring Custer to win at the little Big Horn every day, for millions of years.

4. PE requires an eternal victory of animals specifically adapted to localized and parochial conditions over animals which are globally adapted, which never happens in real life.

5. For any number of reasons, you need a minimal population of any animal to be viable. This is before the tiny group even gets started in overwhelming the vast herds. A number of American species such as the heath hen became non-viable when their numbers were reduced to a few thousand; at that point, any stroke of bad luck at all, a hard winter, a skewed sex ratio in one generation, a disease of some sort, and it's all over. The heath hen was fine as long as it was spread out over the East coast of the U.S. The point at which it got penned into one of these "peripheral" areas which Gould and Eldredge see as the salvation for evolutionism, it was all over.

The sort of things noted in items 3 and 5 are generally referred to as the "gambler's problem", in this case, the problem facing the tiny group of "peripheral" animals being similar to that facing a gambler trying to beat the house in blackjack or roulette; the house could lose many hands of cards or rolls of the dice without flinching, and the globally-adapted species spread out over a continent could withstand just about anything short of a continental-scale catastrophe without going extinct, while two or three bad rolls of the dice will bankrupt the gambler, and any combination of two or three strokes of bad luck will wipe out the "peripheral" species. Gould's basic method of handling this problem is to ignore it.

And there's one other thing which should be obvious to anybody attempting to read through Gould and Eldridge's BS:

The don't even bother to try to provide a mechanism or technical explaination of any sort for this "punk-eek"

They are claiming that at certain times, amongst tiny groups of animals living in peripheral areas, a "speciation event(TM)" happens, and THEN the rest of it takes place. In other words, they are saying:

ASSUMING that Abracadabra-Shazaam(TM) happens, then the rest of the business proceeds as we have described in our scholarly discourse above!

Again, Gould and Eldridge require that the Abracadabra-Shazaam(TM) happen not just once, but countless billions of times, i.e. at least once for every kind of complex creature which has ever walked the Earth. They do not specify whether this amounts to the same Abracadabra-Shazaam each time, or a different kind of Abracadabra-Shazaam for each creature.

12 posted on 11/13/2010 4:36:15 AM PST by wendy1946
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To: Little Pig

That’s where the guy is coming from. But most modern scientists do consider Darwin to be valid, but as a foundation, upon which other stuff (including p.e.) has been built. Once the Muzzies burn down England that will finally die out.


16 posted on 11/13/2010 6:01:24 AM PST by SunkenCiv (The 2nd Amendment follows right behind the 1st because some people are hard of hearing.)
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