Posted on 10/26/2010 2:39:17 PM PDT by MalPearce
Speaking as a Brit who's just joined...
Admit to JimRob that you watch "Glee" ...
Devil’s advocate positions are nothing more than useless mental masturbation and are the type of thing done most often done in classroom situations or to deliberately provoke someone. This is not a debating society here, and I personally detest argument merely for the sake of argument.
As I see it, this site is devoted to adults seeking real-life solutions and answers based on the way the world works and the way human nature works, and not how we wish it would work, as is the case with leftists.
I think most here believe in obtaining wealth via hard and honest work, and abhor those who seek a free lunch, ala the moochers and leaches in Ayn Rand’s “Atlas Shrugged”. You can add to that particularl book as a reading list “Animal Farm”, “1984”, “Harrison Bergeron”, “First Circle”, “Cancer Ward”, and “The Gulag Archipelago” as starters. Then read everything by Jack London. If these books don’t ring your bell, then you’re not a conservative.
We also believe in limited government, limited taxes, and the supremacy of the individual rather than the collective.
There are areas of disagreement here, primarily in religion and morality. These are primarily matters of faith and not reason, and its pointless to engage in argument.
I rarely disagree with someone unless I think they’ve presented incorrect facts or patently misrepresented something generally accepted as being true. If I’m going to disagree or correct, I try to do so in a gentle and helpful manner, unless I’m chastising the rare troll here.
I generally prefer to add to posts in a positive manner, agreeing or amplifying or posting additional relevant information.
You end with:
“I’m asking because IMO there’s a fundamental difference between arguing a point of POLICY (which requires a sense of pragmatism as well as ideology) and arguing over IDEOLOGY (where it’s appropriate to maintain an absolute position).”
Right here you revealed what you are all about, namely arguing, rather than seeking the truth. Furthermore, you wish to argue about useless academic garbage like pointless distinctions between POLICY vs. IDEOLOGY, in caps no less, which no doubt is how you think of “ideas”.
If you’re looking for a debating society, I recommend you go elsewhere. Actually, if you had any sense at all, which seems doubtful, you would have read the posts here for a few days or weeks before making any post at all, much less one that reveals your total ignorance of this site. Basically, you’ve started off exactly like a troll would!
I’m wondering if you’re really a noob.
Cool! Where in Yorkshire? I was in Whitby / Staithes / Redcar last year about this time.
If asked to name three famous British gun owners, the average Brit would say Derrick Bird, Michael Ryan and Thomas Hamilton - all three of them are spree killing nutjobs.
However, if you gave your average Brit a handgun to carry on their person at all times for self-defense (a God-given right that no man can take away), would that Brit turn into a spree killing nutjob? Of course not, it's a ridiculous assertion.
1. Do you love me? Superficial love will not do. I need to know if you have a deep, passionate, unconditional, love
for me.
—————————————————————————————— Let me sleep on it,I’ll give you an answer in the morning.
(I’ve been on a Meatloaf kick lately) :-)
Agree 100%.
Wow, that was an interesting post.
Most people I know here in America think that failing to have firearms handy in the home is an unnecessarily risky gambit. I keep a couple of loaded handguns handy, but out of sight and hidden where only a grown adult can reach them. There’s also some shotguns and rifles in the closet with the ammo hidden high and away nearby, readily available to me in a hurry if I need it.
When each of my kids got to be 10 or so I showed them where I keep the handguns so they wouldn’t discover them accidentally. I also took them out back in our woods where I have a small shooting range excavated and gave them the basic gun safety lecture and then let them fire those guns all they wanted. Interestingly, it didn’t take long for them to hand the guns back and say, “Thanks, Dad, but that’s enough for now.” (I have a feeling the noise was a lot louder than they expected.) Any unsafe curiousity they may have harbored was satisfied.
So everybody in the house knows where the guns are, there is no special curiousity concerning the guns, and I’m the only one in the house who has touched the guns (for occasional practice and cleaning) in at least ten years.
This is a relatively normal situation in America, at least outside of the parasite nests (”cities”), and the government schools. In the government schools a kid can get kicked out for DRAWING a gun. Fortunately, there is a growing trend away from the failing liberal/socialist indoctrination buildings known as government schools.
We must remember that Free Republic is Jim Robinson’s property. Americans have free speech rights but not on someone else’s property.
I understand that conservatism and the political environment are different in different countries. Britain is, of course, far more secular and socialist than the US. Mr. Obama wants to see the US travel in that direction.
Here is a GOP(Republican) “Litmus test” proposed earlier this year. Candidates would have had to favor at least 7 or 8 of these to gain party support:
“”1. Support for smaller government and lower taxes
2. Support troop surges in Iraq and Afghanistan
3. Support Defense of Marriage Act
4. Support containing Iran and North Korea
5. Support gun rights
6. Oppose ObamaCare
7. Oppose cap-and-trade legislation
8. Oppose “amnesty” for illegals
9. Oppose union card check
10.Oppose government-funded abortion””
Col Freeper,
The term “Conservative” in the UK implies a member of the Conservative Party, which I’m not. David Cameron’s made some strong, positive moves away from the Big Government Politically Correct era of Labour but I just don’t think it’s enough. The Conservative Party is not really conservative.
Westminster these days is stuffed full of professional politicians who follow the opinion polls and jump ship if they think it’s expedient to do so.
Tony Blair had more in common with the Tories than he ever had with Labour (pro-religion, pro-America for example) but because his wife was a HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER and she earned more than he did sparing illegal immigrants from having to get the boat back home, he joined the Labour Party.
Gordon Brown was a tool of the highest order but at least he actually believed in the party he was a member of. Blair DESPISED the party he ruled. That’s why Brown couldn’t stand Blair.
That tells you everything you need to know about politics in Britain: ever since Thatcher was forced out, conviction politicians have been sidelined and they’ve been replaced by empty suits - spin doctors and opinion poll analysts and lobbyists.
The Tories and Labour both choose to be centrist because that’s where their professional instincts tell them they can pull in enough votes to win seats at the general election.
I don’t think there is a political party over here that accurately reflects my views. My local MP is a Tory and a decent enough chap but he’s still a time-serving career politician.
I did dabble in the New Party for a while, many years back when it looked like it’d be small state, economically liberal but also socially conservative, anti-Europe, pro-God and pro-defense. On one of the early party meetings took place at a country fayre with field sports and Monster Truck racing, and I actually thought it might have legs.
But the whole thing descended into farce when Robert Kilroy-Silk defected from UKIP, attempted to sieze control of the New Party, and we had a fracture with people defecting to an even smaller outfit called Veritas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Party_(UK)
I’m sympathetic to UKIP, who want us out of the EU but again they don’t really have a wide mandate in Westminster - people here vote tactically. If there’s a 10% chance of getting a UKIP guy elected and a 50% chance of the Tory candidate winning, they’ll vote Tory.
What we really need is something like the Tea Party Movement to unite the warring factions, and get rid of all these little fringe parties that’ll never win power in the First Past The Post electoral system.
I haven’t quite worked out where we’d draw the lines though - some of the people in Jury Team are very clearly conservative and that’s a grass roots movement of sorts, but it’s also got its fair share of sandal-wearing hippies that we could really do without.
Only that will see the resurgence of true conservatism in the United Kingdom.
I live in a small village east of Leeds, not far from Ferrybridge, off the A1.
I was going to ask you about a British Tea Party. We’ve read some articles that seem to indicate that there is a nascent Tea Party starting to brew over there. Or maybe it was Australia I’m thinking about, although I could have sworn it was both places.
Is such a grass roots movement possible over there?
Outside the world of politics I'd agree. Inside the world of politics... I'm not so convinced.
Labour put in place lots of anti-terror legislation that IN PRINCIPLE I completely agree with, but they also allowed that legislation to be misused to boot hecklers out from their own Party conference, ban people from reading out lists of our war dead, and so on. and that I must condemn.
A little bit of the "devil's advocate" when that Bill was going through Parliament, might well have prevented such atrocious abuse of public trust.
Orwell's books are definitely on my shelf, as is Jack London, but can't say as I've read all of the books you've listed. I've got a well stacked library Call of the Wild and White Fang along with many other "rip roaring adventures" by many other authors - RL Stevenson for example. Also got all the early Biggles short stories, the ones set in WW1, from when I were a lad.
Swiss Family Robinson (Wyss) and The Coral Island (Ballantyne) are two books that I think haven't really been given the attention they deserve as they advocate strong moral values. Most people I've spoken to know very little about The Coral Island, apart from a vague idea that Lord of the Flies (Golding) presents the horrifying picture of how Jack, Ralph and Peterkin might've ended up if they had found themselves devoid of moral guidance.
I support all of them unequivocally.
I agree to the principle of being able to keep and bear arms, but after many years of working with politicians and the police on this side of the pond, I can safely say that “I’d like to own some handguns” is a subject that doesn’t EVER get brought up on the doorstep when candidates are canvassing for votes. The right to defend your own home without having a burglar sue you for kicking his ass, does crop up all the time.
If it were up to me (and it’s not!) I’d suggest that the Common Law principle of marriage be formally written up, and put into DOMA - as that would then explicitly and formally define marriage as an institution between one consenting man and one consenting woman regardless of religion, doctrine, creed, and so on.
Does Common Law Marriage promote gay marriage? No. Does it promote plural marriage? No. Does it impinge on any religious doctrine? No. Does it take away the ceremonial role for a priest, vicar, minister, rabbi etc? No. Does it keep marriage out of the hands of the Federal Government? Yes.
The common law definition of marriage (in the UK) was developed over a thousand years and was ported into American law from the outset. It was, and remains, entirely compatible with Genesis 1 without actually stating that’s where it comes from. It wasn’t perfect by any means, but it did set a minimum standard that would prevent the constant reinterpretation of what marriage can be defined to mean.
Z discussions always piss me off!
*******************
LOL!
Well said.
Like a bat out of hell I’ll gone when the mornin’ comes
Like a bat out of hell I’ll be gone gone gone
Like a bat out of hell I’ll be gone when the mornin’ comes
But when the day is done and the sun goes down and the moon comes shining through hoo hoo hoo
Like a sinner!
Before the gates of heaven!
I’ll come crawling on back to you...
big meatloaf fan here brother. Cheers
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