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Ayn Rand: Goddess of the Great Recession
Christianity Today | 8/28/2010 | Garry Moore

Posted on 08/28/2010 7:06:10 PM PDT by Mojave

This past spring, the Financial Industry Inquiry Commission held hearings on the world's recent financial crisis. The star witness was Alan Greenspan. The Wall Street Journal columnist Peggy Noonan translated Greenspan's typically elusive testimony this way: "I didn't do anything wrong, and neither did Ayn Rand by the way, but next time you might try more regulation."

There were obviously many reasons for the Great Recession. But I believe Noonan got to the root of one particular evil.

Fortune magazine once labeled Greenspan "America's most famous libertarian, an Ayn Rand acolyte." (While Rand formally rejected libertarianism, libertarians nonetheless admire her.) But today, both libertarians and Randians are disassociating themselves from Greenspan as quickly as Wall Street.


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To: Hoodat

I have tried so many times to read the Bible. I want to. I feel moved to.

But I read this and it reminds my of why I can never succeed in my quest.

I’m a fairly literate fellow. Really, I am. But I had to read that several times and still I don’t understand it. How do you “trade” a talent? How do you put talent in the ground. Or does talent mean something other than what I think it means?

Hank


121 posted on 08/28/2010 10:38:49 PM PDT by County Agent Hank Kimball (Where's the diversity on MSNBC? Olbermann, Schultz, Matthews, Maddow.....all white males!)
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To: County Agent Hank Kimball
A great question. A “talent” was a coin. But, it is interesting how it also relates to our “talents” - or gifts from God.

Perhaps getting together with a church Bible Study group would help get through it. Or even a study guide.

Oh. Put me in the camp that takes the good parts from Ayn Rand that I agree with, or can learn from. While understanding that she doesn't “get it” (IMHO!) my relationship with God.

I have learned that in business, the goal is to make a profit. I have also learned that if I treat my clients well, bend over backwards to meet their schedules, treat them fairly and be honest - they will keep coming back to me, and I can make money. Can't say that my main goal in business is to “act like a Christian” - but I attempt to do so. It also adds to my enjoyment and pleasure as I can sleep at night!

Interesting about one of her quotes about freewill in engaging in dealings with who she enters into relationships with. I just had a dealing with a client that wanted me to skimp on how I do things, but it would be for a HUGE contract. I told him I would be glad to help them out, but my price is my price, and I won't skimp on how I do things. And whether that is my honor in doing a job correctly, or the threat of a lawsuit down the road.....? Both.

122 posted on 08/28/2010 11:02:18 PM PDT by 21twelve ( UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES MY ARSE: "..now begin the work of remaking America."-Obama, 1/20/09)
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To: Lurker
Burns is a liar.

Maybe. Certainly an ignoramus. He claims to be a Christian economist, but shows no awareness of REAL work done in the field by such folks as Gary North, George Grant, and David Chilton. Chilton's book Productive Christians in an Age of Guilt Manipulators torpedoed the credibility of Ron Sider, the most prominent "evangelical" soft-sell socialist. North has been spending 10-11 hours a week for the last few decades writing an economic commentary on the Bible. Book by book, he examines was God has to say about economic matters.

I think North was right about Christianity Today -- a driving passion, somewhere after the obvious ones to glorify God and bless His people, is the desire to appear "trendier than thou."

123 posted on 08/29/2010 12:03:15 AM PDT by RJR_fan (Christians need to reclaim and excel in the genre of science fiction.)
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To: County Agent Hank Kimball

Amorality is morality. A is M.


124 posted on 08/29/2010 1:36:02 AM PDT by Mojave (Ignorant and stoned - Obama's natural constituency.)
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To: Popman
It made him realize that they had mixed Rand's strongly anti-government, unquestioningly pro-business, and individualistic worldview with biblical Christianity.

Just how can anyone after reading any of Rand writing or books mix Christianity and Objectivism???

I've read them all and the main reason I reject Objectivism is it's lack of any Christian values

Consider an alternate course of action.

Consider rejecting Objectivism in your personal life, but embracing Objectivism in your business dealings and in government.

you are fee to accept Jesus and salvation, but at the same time demand that those with whom you deal professionally and those who enact policy proceed from a position free emotion and/or any other motivation other than making good business decisions and respecting individual liberty.

Why do Christianity and Objectivism have to exist in an adversarial posture?

125 posted on 08/29/2010 2:21:18 AM PDT by Abundy
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To: narses
"Morality, economics and politics all inter-relate."

No, they do not.

For all three to some extent are subjective to one's point of view, therefore a political system that is guided by the other two by nature will not respect individual liberty of those who do not subscribe to the economics or morals of the political system.

126 posted on 08/29/2010 3:16:52 AM PDT by Abundy
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To: Mojave
OK...so I've made it to post #75.

A question for you assuming that your morality is based on your Faith as a Christian...do you believe it is appropriate for government to govern based on your morality? In other words, if the US tax code and entitlement structure is driven by your morality you would have no problem with that and believe that the government is just?

And if so, please explain how imposing your morality on those who do not ascribe to that same morality is appropriate?

If people don't find your morality on their own, and instead have it imposed upon them by government, what hope do they have of finding Salvation on their own?

My fellow Christians who reject Rand have a serious problem on their hands...as they seem to advocate a theocracy model of government.

I prefer to keep my faith in God personal...and my lack of faith in government personal as well. Government has one obligation - to follow our Constitution and not steal the fruit of my labors in the name of "altruism" or "social justice."

127 posted on 08/29/2010 3:31:11 AM PDT by Abundy
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To: Mojave
If you're not concerned with the other person's welfare, then the only thing preventing you from robbing them is the fear of getting caught.

If you believe this to be true you truly have a dim view of your fellow man.

I'm not concerned for the drug addict's welfare to the point that I want my government to take my tax dollars to help feed his habit that he created via an individual choice.

Yet I have a highly developed sense of right and wrong and wouldn't even consider committing any crime against that same person.

You are attempting to defend imposing your morality on others and that position is not defensible in a free society.

128 posted on 08/29/2010 3:36:35 AM PDT by Abundy
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To: Abundy
I prefer to keep my faith in God personal...

Good.

"And where else will this degenerate son of science, this traitor to his fellow men, find the origin of just powers, if not in the majority of the society? Will it be in the minority? Or in an individual of that minority?" --Thomas Jefferson

129 posted on 08/29/2010 3:42:08 AM PDT by Mojave (Ignorant and stoned - Obama's natural constituency.)
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To: Abundy
If you believe this to be true you truly have a dim view of your fellow man.

How so? They have overwhelming reject Objectivism.

You are attempting to defend imposing your morality on others

For example?

130 posted on 08/29/2010 3:45:22 AM PDT by Mojave (Ignorant and stoned - Obama's natural constituency.)
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To: Mojave
For example?

Try re-reading all of you posts without the log in your eye.

131 posted on 08/29/2010 3:47:48 AM PDT by Abundy
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To: DesertRhino
“The rejection of morality”

As entertaining as circular arguments are, where did Rand ever reject morality? Please enlighten us.(unless you think morality includes the right to use force or fraud against others,,, like Ted Bundy)

What Mojave means is

"the rejection of MY morality."

132 posted on 08/29/2010 3:49:25 AM PDT by Abundy
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To: Mojave
How about answering the questions I posed to you?

TIA

133 posted on 08/29/2010 3:50:29 AM PDT by Abundy
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To: Abundy

You can’t even come up with one example?


134 posted on 08/29/2010 3:52:10 AM PDT by Mojave (Ignorant and stoned - Obama's natural constituency.)
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To: Abundy
How about answering the questions I posed to you?

Again?

"And where else will this degenerate son of science, this traitor to his fellow men, find the origin of just powers, if not in the majority of the society? Will it be in the minority? Or in an individual of that minority?" --Thomas Jefferson

135 posted on 08/29/2010 3:56:14 AM PDT by Mojave (Ignorant and stoned - Obama's natural constituency.)
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To: Mojave
answer my questions I posed to you first...maybe I'll correct my initial assessment, but for the first 134 posts you appear to be defending imposing your morality on society and rejecting Rand's vision.

so, again, answer my questions from post #127, which you obviously read because you quoted my last sentence and ignored the questions...which I've reproduced here for your convenience:

A question for you assuming that your morality is based on your Faith as a Christian...do you believe it is appropriate for government to govern based on your morality? In other words, if the US tax code and entitlement structure is driven by your morality you would have no problem with that and believe that the government is just?

And if so, please explain how imposing your morality on those who do not ascribe to that same morality is appropriate?

If people don't find your morality on their own, and instead have it imposed upon them by government, what hope do they have of finding Salvation on their own?

My fellow Christians who reject Rand have a serious problem on their hands...as they seem to advocate a theocracy model of government.

< P>again...TIA for your thoughtful and considered responses...

136 posted on 08/29/2010 4:02:42 AM PDT by Abundy
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To: Mojave
you also might want to look at #125...and stop posting the Jefferson quote...he was at best a Deist.

Of course he was also brilliant and would likely take Rand's side of this argument, given his views on government.

Have you ever read any Locke? Jefferson did.

137 posted on 08/29/2010 4:05:24 AM PDT by Abundy
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To: Abundy
Let's try it a different way.

...your morality...your morality...your morality...your morality...?

Straw man, straw man, straw man, straw man.

Christians who reject Rand have a serious problem on their hands...as they seem to advocate a theocracy model of government.

False.

138 posted on 08/29/2010 4:07:50 AM PDT by Mojave (Ignorant and stoned - Obama's natural constituency.)
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To: Abundy
stop posting the Jefferson quote...he was at best a Deist.

So what?

Of course he was also brilliant and would likely take Rand's side of this argument

Nonsense.

"And where else will this degenerate son of science, this traitor to his fellow men, find the origin of just powers, if not in the majority of the society? Will it be in the minority? Or in an individual of that minority?" --Thomas Jefferson

Have you ever read any Locke?

You obviously have not.

"Whosoever therefore out of a state of Nature unite into a Community, must be understood to give up all the power, necessary to the ends for which they unite into Society, to the majority of the Community, unless they expressly agreed in any number greater than the majority. And this is done by barely agreeing to unite into one Political Society, which is all the Compact that is, or needs be, between the Individuals, that enter into, or make up a Common-wealth. And thus that, which begins and actually constitutes any Political Society, is nothing but the consent of any number of Freemen capable of a majority to unite and incorporate into such a Society. And this is that, and that only, which did, or could give beginning to any lawful Government in the World." --John Locke

139 posted on 08/29/2010 4:15:13 AM PDT by Mojave (Ignorant and stoned - Obama's natural constituency.)
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To: Mojave

LMAO...thanks for posting one of Locke’s quotes that proves my point.


140 posted on 08/29/2010 4:39:42 AM PDT by Abundy
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