Posted on 08/27/2010 5:18:05 AM PDT by TSgt
Earlier this year my wife and I purchased 46 acres in Kentucky. The land is heavily timbered with light timber. We need to build a road to the homesite and would like to clear several acres and excavate a pond. I am an extreme do it yourself guy and have rented and successfully operated skid steers, stump grinders and large trenchers.
My options are:
A. Hire an excavation contractor to complete the entire job for around $50,000
B. Buy a used dozer for $20,000 + diesel + gravel
C. Rent a new dozer for $4,000 a month + diesel + gravel
I've never operated a dozer however I never operated or was trained on any of the equipment I rented but quickly learned how to use it. The excavation doesn't have to be perfect since we won't be building for several years and can pay someone to detail it later when they are at the site to dig the foundation. I simply need to build the road and clear timber. I understand the concepts of pushing trees over, backblading, grading, etc.. Also, I would consider this extreme fun instead of work because I'm sick like that. ;-)
Given this information and based on your personal experience, which option above should I choose?
Would a Case/Deere 650 do the job?
FRegards for your replies!
TSgt
a new too small of a machine that just won’t cut it.
Was in the business for fifteen years. Owning your own would be the way I would choose.
I have noticed the newer machines (small) are very efficient.
The gear ratio has changed a great deal, so they are much faster and stronger. Foot power to the axle is much greater in force.
Thanks for your reply!
The Forestry Service was of the opinion that there was no timber of value but I will reach out to a company anyway just to make sure.
No well needed, I have FULL utilities, electric, telephone and water at the road if you can believe it! Including DSL so I can FReep!
No zoning or permits needed in this county/area.
There is an existing pond at the site which holds water pretty well though I do understand that one could hit a rocky area and be screwed.
The land is great and the site will be well off the road and private! Rolling hills with a nice large level area in the middle.
The dozer guy and the grader guy are always the best operators on a crew. Learning to run a bulldozer wont happen in a few hours. Since u say u have operated a skidder before, could you get the road good enough to suit u with just a skidder?
You’re not just moving dirt and knocking down trees.
You’re managing drainage and creating a waterfowl habitat.
(because the feds say anything bigger than a mud puddle is such)
That alone is worth hiring a contractor.
The time saved will free you to do other things, and that too is worth the difference.
The son of a friend ended up under the tree using a bull dozer...paralyzed for life.
Thanks!
Can you suggest a dozer size for this job?
Old size and new size?
No way a skidder would do it. Too rocky and far too much soil to move.
Just a few thoughtsd.......... Dozers are great for hogging and moving dirt short distances. They can’t pick up dirt like a loader, scraper, etc.
Use the dozer to rough out the length of road and dig your pond. Have your gravel delivered in bottom dumps so they can spread the material instead of dumping in piles.
You may find that maybe you could use the dozer for the rough work, then either a grader or a loader with box scraper for final grading.
I’d rent instead of buying used. If the rental equip breaks down, they bring you a replacement. If your used equip breaks, you fix it.
I agree with ‘mad_as_he$$’. Deere is good, but Cat is best. Find someone who is an expert in “yellow” equipment to evaluate condition of machine before you buy! He’ll be able to evaluate true condition of undercarriage, hydraulics, etc. A good friend from one of Virginia’s biggest JD dealers told me “never by yellow used” unless an expert evaluates it. Operate it before buying, check all functions/systems/controls.
Also, get a loader with a 4-in-1 bucket as suggested. Makes machine many times more versatile.
Sell machine when you are finished. Buy right, and it may cost you nothing but fuel. But I bet once you use it, you’ll never want to part with it. 46 acres almost demands a loader.
Me? Operated almost every machine but a crane, and whenever I’m on any machine, I forget what time it is. When I’m on my tractor & my wife gets a call at the house for me, she always says, “Richard’s out undergoing tractor therapy....” :-)
arlis
You are describing in Option ‘B’ a similarity to what I did. Similar as the project I had was smaller, and I bought an old beat to death Ford 532, and graded the RQSR over time as I had it. The self satisfaction of learning the machine, the quality of the results, etc. make it the option I would choose again under the circumstances I had then. The results daily as I worked made it fun. Nothing like seeing something come together at your own hand. It’s great.
Personally would do all possible to do it myself. Too much fun to be lost hiring it out.
Now I’m retired, so I could get the job done a lot faster. I’d probably rent today as I could do it much cheaper, and with “Obama, and the tax and Spenders” currently playing on our stage, saving money is important. You still would have the satisfaction, and the fun, but at a lesser cost.
You would have to be retired as I am, or have the time to devote NOW to git’n er done. IF you couldn’t devote the time, the rental would eat up the savings over time. Even sending it back, and bringing it back later the transportation charges would add up I should think.
LOL!
I would quit my desk job and work 12 hours a day on a tractor if I could make half of what I’m making now!
Following this thread with interest.
Wish I could be of help, but I’m in the same boat as you as far as experience with heavy equipment.
You and your wife are living our dream. Beautiful piece of property.
What I would do is consider your plans over the next 5, 10 or 20 years. Personally, if I were in your situation, I would think a tractor would make more sense long term, and I’d rent or contract the heavy work and keep the money to buy a more appropriate piece of equipment for the long term, but our plans are more along the lines of orchards, small farming, etc and owning a dozer really wouldn’t make sense after the major clearing and excavation was done.
Also depends on your situation with money vs time. You can do a lot with a small tractor and a backhoe or blade if you’re not in a hurry for less, but if you want it done quickly, then you need heavier equipment that will be more expensive.
I would also think the soil has a lot to do with it - density, drainage, and rock content are going to play a part in both what equipment will make sense, and what equipment you can actually get onto the property given the season you want to accomplish the work.
I think I’d try to do it in stages. Getting the access road in and topping it (if you plan to) with gravel or whatever would go a long way into making the rest of the job easier.
Clearing the acreage would be another stage.
Digging the pond would be another.
Any foundation work would then be another.
Might make sense to make your decision differently depending on what stage. You don’t necessarily have to rent/buy/contract the whole thing with a single machine.
Just my thoughts. Best of luck to you.
Been there done that.
If you just want to have fun, rent or buy a machine and spend the next year clearing trees and cleaning up the mess you make. But you will probably not save much money, a $20k machine is going to break, and parts are expensive, if you don’t have the tools and skills to do the repair, it gets very expensive.
If you want the job done and done right hire someone with experience. They will do the job 10 times faster and the results will look better.
If you are building a pond, don’t do it yourself unless you have practicle skills and experience in pond building. I eventually used my leaky self made pond as a dump for demolition and covered it over.
In my experience, when you hire a loader operator, the fee is for his skill and knowledge, the machine time is thrown in for free.
Spend time before doing anything thinking about your land, gravity, water and how gravity will direct water off your land. In the case of your pond, think about how water will be retained and it's level regulated.
Its probably my terrain here in Alaska, I have a tundra like growth of roots several feet thick that stalls out the local blade I rent from EZ Rents across the highway. Really thick moss like scrub of young black spruce on top of gravel is what I have here.
You sound like myself.
Compared to your 56 acres, my half dozen acres is small, but a few years back I bought a used tractor from a rental shop. I’ts got a front bucket and a three point hitch for the back where I have a seven foot wide York rake. I can also put a backhoe attachment on it. I intitially rented it to spread and grade some stone for a driveway and parking area. I fell in love with the thing and ended up buying it. It only had 500 hours on it and was in great shape, only 2 years old.
Well, I can’t tell you how many things I’ve used it for since then, it’s become my mule and wheel barrow all in one.
So, my advice to you with your 56 acres is to buy a good piece of used equipment, because your always going to have uses for it beyond your initial projects.
Now, which piece, is a bigger question, there are many different ones that could do the job. I prefer something with a bucket that I can dig with and also grade, but you have to sort of shop around and fit the equipment to your requirements.
Thanks!
We would like to build within 5 years but are very financially conservative and won’t jump until we are ready.
You make an excellent point about the tractor since we are going to have to buy a substantial machine. This makes renting the dozer even more appealing since we are looking at the same amount, $20K, for a large tractor w/bucket.
Thanks again!
TSgt
I’d wait until the snow clears.
Seriously, I would go with ‘B’. As someone above said, if you buy right, and sell it when you’re done, you may end up only paying for diesel. Sure, you run the risk of needed repairs, but that rental fee could go a long ways towards parts and labor. If you need it. Buy with the thought in mind that you may become attached to it and decide to hang on to it.
I could not agree more. You are exactly right.
I went through that in 2000. I bought a piece of land with nothing on it. I bought a dozer and did the work myself. After the work was done, barn was up, driveway in and all that I sold the dozer for more then I paid. (I had painted it etc.)
What I learned was that if I were to do it again I would look seriously at getting a good tractor with a backhoe. I found that a backhoe would have been more valuable after the flat work was done. Digging pond, water lines, underground utilities and such. The tractor would be much more useful for all around use. The tractor backhoe combination would be a much wiser investment and if a dozer is needed rent one for the short term.
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