[ReignOfError]

No state would have ever joined the union if they thought they could not secede if the Federal gubmint became too overbearing.

1/3 of the states joined the Union during or after the Civil War, when it was pretty clear secession wouldn't fly.

[ought-six]

“1/3 of the states joined the Union during or after the Civil War, when it was pretty clear secession wouldn’t fly.”

Well, secession may not have been, or may not be successful, but the right to secede was not precluded.

[Thermalseeker]

1/3 of the states joined the Union during or after the Civil War, when it was pretty clear secession wouldn't fly.

So what? We're talking about events before the War of Northern Aggression. What happened afterward has no bearing on the concept of secession prior to TWONA....

[lentulusgracchus]

[Thermalseeker] No state would have ever joined the union if they thought they could not secede if the Federal gubmint became too overbearing.

1/3 of the states joined the Union during or after the Civil War, when it was pretty clear secession wouldn't fly.

TS's original statement is correct as it stands.

New York was among the States adding "clarifications" of Original Intent to their ratification resolutions, which by the way are not swept up in the general Madisonian condemnation of "conditional ratification".

Several of the States, like New York, ratified only in the expectation, which they made clear in their "clarification" language, that a Bill of Rights would be added to the Constitution.

The Antifederalists were the fathers of the Bill of Rights; Madison and Hamilton insisted a Bill of Rights wasn't needed, and Hamilton freely dispensed the snake oil that ratifying the Constitution without a Bill of Rights would be more restrictive of federal accessions and claims of power, than having a Bill of Rights. Anyone think he was right today?

Without the Bill of Rights, the Antifederalists had the votes to defeat ratification in several key States, "without which not". The Antifederalists were the fathers of our liberty, for using their heads and not listening to the New York City hustle put on by Hamilton.

Eventually Madison agreed to write the Bill of Rights, not that he agreed with having one, simply on the grounds that the most competent person available should give the writing his best effort, to come up with the best language possible. Even so, he got worked over extensively (as in the case of the Second Amendment) before the language fell into its final form that we know today.

Thermalseeker earns the palm for being right.