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To: trisham; reasonisfaith

It was short and to the point, and here it is:


Your question is based on an incorrect assumption—that moral standards are always derived from utilitarianism.

So the implied conclusion is equally false.


215 posted on 08/04/2010 3:06:15 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: little jeremiah

The poster’s mind doesn’t seem to be very well grounded.

The latest trend for these types on this forum is to make a claim from deep within the leftist camp, and then back it up by calling their opponents statists or liberals.

As always, their only means is deceptiveness and nonsense.


216 posted on 08/04/2010 5:02:34 PM PDT by reasonisfaith (Rules will never work for radicals because they seek chaos. And don't even know it.)
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To: little jeremiah

Utilitarianism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

“Utilitarianism (also: utilism) is the idea that the moral worth of an action is determined solely by its utility in providing happiness or pleasure as summed among all sentient beings. It is thus a form of consequentialism, meaning that the moral worth of an action is determined by its outcome. The most influential contributors to this ideology were Jeremy Bentham and John Stuart Mill.
Utilitarianism is often described by the phrase “the greatest good for the greatest number of people”, and is also known as “the greatest happiness principle”. Utility, the good to be maximized, has been defined by various thinkers as happiness or pleasure (versus suffering or pain), although preference utilitarians define it as the satisfaction of preferences. It may be described as a life stance, with happiness or pleasure being of ultimate importance.
Utilitarianism can be characterised as a quantitative and reductionist approach to ethics. It can be contrasted with deontological ethics (which do not regard the consequences of an act as being a determinant of its moral worth) and virtue ethics (which focuses on character), as well as with other varieties of consequentialism.
In general usage, the term utilitarian refers to a somewhat narrow economic or pragmatic viewpoint. Philosophical utilitarianism, however, is a much broader view that encompasses all aspects of people’s lives.

The origins of utilitarianism are often traced as far back as the Greek philosopher Epicurus, but, as a specific school of thought, it is generally credited to Jeremy Bentham. Bentham found pain and pleasure to be the only intrinsic values in the world: “nature has placed mankind under the governance of two sovereign masters, pain and pleasure.” From this, he derived the rule of utility: the good is whatever brings the greatest happiness to the greatest number of people.
Bentham’s foremost proponent was James Mill, a significant philosopher in his day and the father of John Stuart Mill. The younger Mill was educated according to Bentham’s principles, including transcribing and summarizing much of his father’s work while still in his teens.
In his famous work, Utilitarianism, the younger Mill argues that cultural, intellectual and spiritual pleasures are of greater value than mere physical pleasure because the former would be valued higher than the latter by competent judges. A competent judge, according to Mill, is anyone who has experienced both the lower pleasures and the higher. His famous quote found in Utilitarianism (book) was, “it is better to be a human dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied” demonstrating Mill’s distinction between higher and lower pleasures. He justified this distinction by the thought that “few human creatures would consent to be changed into any of the lower animals, for a promise of the fullest allowance of a beast’s pleasures.” In distinguishing between types of pleasure, Mill distanced himself from Bentham, who famously said that the child’s game of push-pin is as good as poetry (assuming that the two bring equal quantities of pleasure).
Like Bentham’s formulation, Mill’s utilitarianism deals with pleasure and happiness. However John Stuart Mill made a clear distinction between happiness and pleasure; and made it evident that Weak Rule Utilitarianism was focused on maximising happiness rather than pleasure; for the naturalistic fallacy made it clear that what one desires and what is good are not always the same thing. For example a pleasure/desire may be to bully a lonely child, which may produce pleasure, however happiness comes from following virtues rather than desires.”

It doesn’t appear that God has any place in Utilitarianism.


220 posted on 08/05/2010 5:54:44 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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