Patriot vs. Well Meaning Census Worker

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[Joe 6-pack]

Here's how things went at my place.

[rcrngroup]

Bump that. I can confirm every word, as census has been essential to me in family history research. People are making fools of themselves and a non-issue in resisting answering the very basic questions which will be sealed for 72 years.

I am one of those who only answered question #1 (how many live at this address as of April 1) and #9 -- race = American. All other questions I answered as N/A. I have since received 2 notices on July 12 & 13, on my door, from a Census worker named Amber A. I am personally looking forward to a face-face visit because she (or he) will get a can of whoop ass opened up on them. I will ask for 3 forms of photo ID, social security number, birth certificate, in fact where is 0b0z0's birth certificate, why did he list his race as black when he is half black & half white? Then we will commence with me reading the Declaration of Independence and then move on to the Constitution & Amendments, and then quotes from our Founding Fathers.

Which brings me to your comment listed above in italics.....the Census form states emphatically that all information & answers are confidential. If that is the case, then how is it that you are able to access Census information for family history research? The information is supposed to be confidential & is not to be given out. You said it is sealed for 72 years and then released? Where is the purpose listed in the Constitution that the information is available for family research? Another bone of contention is that the Census is supposedly to allocate money based on race or gender? Again, where is that listed or found in the Constitution? I did not see that listed at all in Article I, Section 2.

Causing the government to spend more money with more visits? The government under 0b0z0 has rung up record deficits of $2.1 Trillion in the last 18 months. I doubt the Census portion amounts to a hundredth of a decimal point of the spending juggernut. In any case, there is rampant corruption & double dipping already involved by having Census workers submit for full days of reimbursement when they are only working 3-4 hours in some cases.

I don't have a problem with the Census at all, as laid out in the Constitution. But I will not answer any intrusive or invasive question or race related questions.

[Ellendra]

ping for later

[kvanbrunt2]

My ancestors didn’t live here. my grandfather walked across a bridge from Canada. Grandmother was already here with kid in tow??? I rely on cemetery headstones and church records from ireland and germany in order to recreate my ancestry. no morman’s praying for me! therefore the extra ? are not needed from my point of view. Currently I’m an undocumented worker.

[Talisker]

MeneMeneTekelUpharsin: The Census form is short this year. You fellas need to just answer the basic questions (especially for geneological research in the future) and let these people do their jobs. Every time you make it hard, you just cause the government to spend more money with more visits, phone calls, etc. as they check with your neighbors and anyone else they can find to get the information. The money is coming out of YOUR pocket. Some of this overreaction is beyond the pale.

La Enchiladita: Bump that. I can confirm every word, as census has been essential to me in family history research. People are making fools of themselves and a non-issue in resisting answering the very basic questions which will be sealed for 72 years. Get a grip, folks.

Neither one of you know what you're talking about. Census 2010 is a gross violation of census law and the civil rights of hundeds of millions of people.

“If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”
-Samuel Adams

Learn: Census 2010 and the Law.

[Deagle]

Almost everybody here is right! What do we put up with this crap! It is all about liberty and why should we allow ourselves to become slaves to these federal questioners?

Actually I now know the answer - we shouldn’t! I am just amazed and angry that I answered these questions before I knew that I should not have...damn! I get angry just thinking about it... (I’m ashamed that I went along with their questions without understanding...).

Damn all of this intrusion into our private lives!

[MeneMeneTekelUpharsin]

Even if we were to assume that the questions were entirely reasonable, we should still be free not to answer them, if we so choose.

You constitutional rights argument is overidden by this from Romans 13:1 -- Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

And this -- Romans 13:3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same;

Romans 13:4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil.

I truly understand the disgust with the present government. However, that doesn't call for rebellion against EVERY government function like I'm beginning to see. That's foolish. The way to change the country is to first change yourself. If the people in this nation will turn to God, then the government will again have a solid foundation like it used to have. The reason it is going poorly is because the people are not following God. How can one expect a person who is immoral, lies, cheats and/or steals to elect an official to office who is better than the individual? It's not going to happen. The only way around that is to become the "governing authority" and maybe you're ready to do that. I'm not.

[mad_as_he$$]

Wrong. Census data can be accessed by other Federal Government agencies such as oh - the FBI -anytime they want.

[mewzilla]

Bump that. I can confirm every word, as census has been essential to me in family history research. People are making fools of themselves and a non-issue in resisting answering the very basic questions which will be sealed for 72 years. Get a grip, folks.

Census data is also big business. I don't recall giving the gov't permission to sell mine.

[mewzilla]

And FWIW....

Opinion: The Myth of Census Data Confidentiality

[ctdonath2]

Census data was instrumental in rounding up 110,000 citizens & residents, forcing them into US concentration camps, and confiscating their property.
Oh, you don’t know about that part of US history?
Never again - which starts with not providing that data.

The Constitution requires a headcount. Anything else, by the 4th Amendment, requires a warrant.

If it’s not that big a deal as you say, than accept my lack of participation (beyond headcount), cope, and leave me alone.
The $5000 fine for non participation, without a compelling Constitutional basis and without a warrant, tells me someone has ill intent.

[ctdonath2]

The “confidentiality” is a matter of a simple majority.
Took Congress 4 days to go from Pearl Harbor to using Census data to round up citizens for incarceration based on race.
“Stroke of a pen, law of the land. Pretty cool.”

[ctdonath2]

Is that information so precious that its worth using police powers to levy a $5000 fine for non participation? If so, then it must be valuable - pay me for it.

[fr_freak]

I truly understand the disgust with the present government. However, that doesn't call for rebellion against EVERY government function like I'm beginning to see.

Actually, I think that the disgust for government began long before Obama, but has now reached a point where most people can no longer deny that our federal and many state governments have gone rogue. The census is just one example of the overbearing nature of our government.

As far as the Biblical passages go, I'm not a Biblical scholar, but if we were to take those passages literally and as the whole of our political philosophy, we might as well chuck out the Constitution right now, along with the notion of government by the people. In fact, if we take those passages as being our only guide, we should just bow down to whichever dictator gets himself in office. That, however, is not the American way and the Founders were men who knew the Bible very well. Their view was that there were certain rights granted by God to the people, and the only legitimate government would be one that did not attempt to violate those rights. As long as the governing authority respected God's way, it was legitimate. If it rejected God and His way, it was illegitimate, making it the duty of all God-fearing people to resist it. Well, is it your opinion that this government is with God, or against Him?

[RichInOC]

[La Enchiladita]

Yeah, it's not like the Japanese in WWII were rounded up based on the census info collected only a year or two earlier, or anything...

My research shows that in 1943, census info re Japanese Americans was released per request from President Roosevelt. The allegation that it was used to "round up" the Japanese comes from Michelle Bachmann. If you will recall, the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor in 1941, killing thousands of Americans, and they were our enemies during WWII.

Since then (67 yrs ago), the no other breaches of census confidentiality have been found. If I may ask you, did you refuse to complete your census form on the basis of the 1943 disclosure? If so, was that allowed by the U.S. Census Bureau? I'm just wondering here how that would work.

As for sympathy towards Japanese during WWII, you will see on the anniversary of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, that when photos are posted on FR of the devastation, there are those here who gloat over the destruction. I am not one of those. I'm only pointing it out because using Japanese-Americans during WWII as a sympathetic group is in direct contrast with the glee over using the A-bomb on Japanese civilians that I've seen from conservatives.

[La Enchiladita]

Well then, you need to contact your elected representative and propose legislation that would allow more flexibility in cooperating or not with the census. Perhaps someone could devise a formula of making an “educated guess” in the absence of being provided information.

[La Enchiladita]

If that is the case, then how is it that you are able to access Census information for family history research?

Census information that is older than 72 years is accessible.

I don't have a problem with the Census at all, as laid out in the Constitution.

Does the Constitution detail the information to be collected in the Census?

[La Enchiladita]

Took Congress 4 days to go from Pearl Harbor to using Census data to round up citizens for incarceration based on race.

My research shows that, although Pearl Harbor was bombed in 1941, the request for census data on Japanese Americans was not made until 1943 because of a personal threat vs. President Roosevelt. However, by that time, Japanese Americans had already been relocated to internment camps, per executive order in February 1942.

So, request for census data was not used for internment purposes. The request pertained only to Japanese and Japanese Americans living in the Washington D.C. area. Again, I am not an expert on this but this is what research reveals.

[La Enchiladita]

There was a 1976 Senate Report which slated 26,000 Americans for being rounded up by the FBI in the event of a national emergency at the height of the cold war.

Unlike other assertions made by Bill Lindner, the author of the blog entry, no link or documentation is provided for this. Also, looking through Lindner's info and biblio, he seems like an Art-Bell-Coast-to-Coast kind of guy: conspiracies everywhere!!!!