Posted on 07/08/2010 7:08:48 PM PDT by driftdiver
MINNEAPOLIS – Presbyterian leaders voted Thursday to allow non-celibate gays in committed relationships to serve as clergy, approving the first of two policy changes that could make their church one of the most gay-friendly major Christian denominations in the U.S.
But the vote isn't a final stamp of approval for the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) or its more than 2 million members.
Delegates voted during the church's general assembly in Minneapolis, with 53 percent approving the more liberal policy on gay clergy. A separate vote is expected later Thursday on whether to change the church's definition of marriage from between "a man and a woman" to between "two people."
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"The world has become a more tolerant and accepting place," Wind said. "I've grown up with gay and lesbian friends, teachers, even spiritual leaders. They stand proud as people who deserve the same rights as all human beings."
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
Thank you for that post.
You’re correct that there are indeed true disciples of Christ in this nation, just as Noah and his family were righteous when the rest of mankind were so evil that God destroyed them. And just as Lot and his family (minus his wife) were saved from the destruction of Sodom. And just as Daniel and Ezekiel and others were saved from the repeated destructions of Israel.
A recurring theme of the Bible is that “only a remnant shall be saved.” Those who would call America “a Christian nation” haven’t learned this yet. They seem to have forgotten that “wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many there be that go in thereat.” They’ve forgotten that Jesus was murdered by the many. While they remember that Jesus commanded his apostles to “go therefore and make disciples”, they forget that He also warned them that they would be rejected, perecuted and killed. They’ve forgotten Paul’s warning to the Ephesians that, even in their own church, “grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock.”
Any student/learner/disciple will see very quickly what Jesus meant by “few there be that find it”.
I have witnessed this behavior in several Methodist churches since the 90s, including the wearing of a rainbow stole and changing the liturgy to "Father/Mother God" and similar crapola. I left the UMC in the early 00s, not long after my Methodist pastors "were too busy" to create a prayer service for 9/12/01, in spite of one of our congregant's having lost a family member in the Towers on 9/11. Our home-church prayer group created one instead, got permission to use the sanctuary, and attracted hundreds of new people to the church -- but the pastor wouldn't allow us to use the copier for additional programs. Soon thereafter, he escorted the MYF (youth fellowship) to a mosque for a nice visit.
After leaving the church of five generations of my family, I wandered "in the desert" for many years, surviving on completely independent home-church prayer groups.
Recently, I was led by the Spirit to a Reformed Episcopal church. It uses the same liturgy we used in the Methodist Episcopal Church up until the late 60s (when, after the merger with several other denominations, the "United Methodist Church" became hippified). Its traditional Anglican practices and liturgy convey a large variety of basic Christian beliefs that were suppressed or eliminated by so-called United Methodism since the 60s, such as frequent communion, confession of sins, use of the Nicene and the Athanasian Creed (a long-form affirmation of faith that includes a full description of the nature of the Trinity), et cetera. There is a long sermon that does not contain Methodist-Lite cutesie anecdotes about the pastor's childhood, but that instead illuminate the scriptures, as well as the character of the converted Christian.
Praise God!
Bingo! I'd laugh; but it's no laughing matter.
Excellent post.
Well, you have certainly been down that road then. Sorry you were in the “wilderness” for so long...but I do think the wilderness path has many things we learn from we cannot learn on any other path and it brings growth with it as we must depend on Christ alone. Not everyone can take that path...it requires much courage and stamina to stand...but we come away knowing Christ more for it I believe.
We all need to hold close to Christ in these times we are in now...there does seem to be a huge ‘sifting’ within all churches and most are quite aware of this who are close to Christ. It may very well be the beginnings of positioning the churches to unite on the world stage....and we may see the true church begin to move ‘underground’ in some respects. I hope not but it is very difficult in these days to find a church that is solid.
I believe the church has at some point got to stand up but unfortunately too many non-Christians make up a part of the congregations who play churchianity....the numbers needed then are not enough to withstand the onslaught...let alone the will to fight for righteousness. It's become all inclusive or none at all.
I used the time not only to participate with prayer groups, but also to study the Bible, including writing out the entire new testament by hand.
Years ago, here on FR, someone posted a thread about pop music "earworms" -- those annoying songs you can't get out of your head, and freepers including myself posted hundreds of song titles. It really made me realize how deficient I was in gospel earworms -- the memorization of scripture and the daily reading of scripture that used to be common practice in homes and in schools.
I may never be able to make up the wasted time. But with Bibles on end tables next to every armchair and bed in the house, and the car radio always tuned to the Christian station, I'm doing my best.
I have witnessed this behavior in several Methodist churches since the 90s, including the wearing of a rainbow stole and changing the liturgy to “Father/Mother God” and similar crapola. I left the UMC in the early 00s, not long after my Methodist pastors “were too busy” to create a prayer service for 9/12/01, in spite of one of our congregant’s having lost a family member in the Towers on 9/11. Our home-church prayer group created one instead, got permission to use the sanctuary, and attracted hundreds of new people to the church — but the pastor wouldn’t allow us to use the copier for additional programs. Soon thereafter, he escorted the MYF (youth fellowship) to a mosque for a nice visit.
After leaving the church of five generations of my family, I wandered “in the desert” for many years, surviving on completely independent home-church prayer groups.
Recently, I was led by the Spirit to a Reformed Episcopal church. It uses the same liturgy we used in the Methodist Episcopal Church up until the late 60s (when, after the merger with several other denominations, the “United Methodist Church” became hippified). Its traditional Anglican practices and liturgy convey a large variety of basic Christian beliefs that were suppressed or eliminated by so-called United Methodism since the 60s, such as frequent communion, confession of sins, use of the Nicene and the Athanasian Creed (a long-form affirmation of faith that includes a full description of the nature of the Trinity), et cetera. There is a long sermon that does not contain Methodist-Lite cutesie anecdotes about the pastor’s childhood, but that instead illuminate the scriptures, as well as the character of the converted Christian.
Praise God!
_______________________________
Thanks for sharing your experience. You are certainly not alone — I have friends in the Episcopal Church, several Lutheran fellowships, the Methodist Church of course, and several Presbyterian denominations as well, and even some Baptists — that have each experienced similar trials.
Today I think the question is, are we as individuals remaining faithful to God, and in that context are we living as responsible citizens of the nation into which He has allowed us to be born? The time has past when we can rely on our institutional religions or churches to guide us in living faithfully in either of those realms — that is something we must PERSONALLY trust in God and pursue Him to determine.
Thanks for sharing!!
Faith Undone by Roger Oakland
However, we've seen the intensity and stubbornness of the homosexual agenda. They don't give up. They wear people down.
The PCUSA is going the way of all churches who believe men are basically good and fair and right-acting.
A knowledge of the truth of men's fallen nature is the very first prerequisite to countering that failing and living a life by, for and through Jesus Christ.
"Liberty...will be destructive to us, until God undertakes the care of us, and prepares and forms us, that we may bear his yoke...When we obey God, we possess true and real happiness." - John Calvin, Jer. IV:15
God's judgment is upon the PCUSA. And from out of that congregation, a remnant survives.
Not surprising, considering that the official dogma (for lack of a better word) of the UMC now is that there are many ways to God/Heaven and that "we all worship the same God". The radio ads for one of the big local UMC churches make me want to vomit. Between the AlGore cultic overtones ("if a church's theology was more about the environment than... " a quote!) and the very homosexual agenda-friendly teaching...
Isaiah 5:20 sure rings loudly right now!
The UMC was one of the first “mainline” denominations to welcome homosexual clergy.
The one we go to isn’t on board with that nor, in fairness, is the Presbyterian congregation that we left. It does depend on where you go.
FR needs a “Like” button, like Facebook. That is a great post!
Yes, and also Matthew 24:
42 "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."
I never in my wildest dreams thought I would see this depth of spiritual destruction in America in my lifetime. It's tragic.
“God who gave us life gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that his justice cannot sleep forever.”
— Thomas Jefferson
He escorted them to a mosque???? Unbelievable. He might as well have spat on Christ when he was on the cross.
Presumably, while the kids were there, the imam did that thing they do -- the ritual invitation to become a muslim. If the infidel doesn't agree, muslims are then free to levy a fatwa against them, even if the infidels in question didn't understand what was being said in Arabic.
For lessons learned on homosexual infiltration of the clergy, see Catholic Church.
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