Seminary Smorgasbord [The Continuing Decline of Non-Catholic Denominations]

American Spectator ^ | June 20, 2010 | Mark Tooley

[Steelfish]

Seminary Smorgasbord By Mark Tooley on 6.18.10

A United Methodist school in California is reportedly the first seminary in the United States to become multi-faith. Featured in a recent Los Angeles Times article, Claremont School of Theology outside Los Angeles will begin clergy training for Muslims and Jews this fall, and hopes for future Buddhist and Hindu programs.

Concerned about the new direction, United Methodism's oversight agency for its 13 official seminaries cut off funding to Claremont early this year and will reevaluate the cut-off later this month. Claremont was getting about $800,000 annually from the denomination. But the school says it has been offered $10 million from private supporters for the interfaith initiative. About 70 of Claremont's 275 or so students are United Methodists.

"Eventually, I suspect we will have a cluster of seminaries," Claremont President Jerry Campbell told a church publication early this year. "Each with its own specialty, but in an environment that emphasizes mutual understanding and makes religion the parent of peace rather than the parent of conflict."

[Quix]

NOT

the main Pentecostal denominations—particularly in South and Central America and in Asia!

Sheesh . . . seems sometimes that all the Vatican affiliates know how to do is put out garbage information.

[2ndDivisionVet]

I’m surprised the UMC isn’t embracing this. They’re so multi-culti and artsy-fartsy it ain’t funny. Only the Unitarians really have them beat in the Kumbaya, gay-friendly, Islam is a religion of peace, etc. realm. Maybe it’s the Jews they objected to?

[the_conscience]

[grin] Our poor Romanist FRiends are really grabbing for straws. The commentary after the title was quite a leap, from one liberal seminary in Kalifornia to all Protestant seminaries.

That fish can leap!

Using the same logic I guess we could conclude that all Romanist seminaries are filled with gay men.

[the_conscience]

[grin] Our poor Romanist FRiends are really grabbing for straws. The commentary after the title was quite a leap, from one liberal seminary in Kalifornia to all Protestant seminaries.

That fish can leap!

Using the same logic I guess we could conclude that all Romanist seminaries are filled with gay men.

[the_conscience]

[grin] Our poor Romanist FRiends are really grabbing for straws. The commentary after the title was quite a leap, from one liberal seminary in Kalifornia to all Protestant seminaries.

That fish can leap!

Using the same logic I guess we could conclude that all Romanist seminaries are filled with gay men.

[Persevero]

I wondered about that. I have heard the conservative Protestant bodies are growing in the U.S. It is the mainline (liberal, non-Bible believing) denominations that are shrinking.

Found some world stats:

Group/Annual growth rate in total membership/Annual Growth Rate (compensated for growth of the world’s population)
Pentecostals 8.1% + 5.8%
Evangelicals 5.4% + 3.1%
All Protestants 3.3% + 1.0%
Roman Catholics and Others 1.3% - 1.0%

Source: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_deno.htm

[dangus]

I agree there is a bizarrely unwarranted leap from the article to the parenthetical title, but your statistics are bunk.

The world’s growth rate is about 1.3%. The growth in Catholic population is slightly less. I’m not sure what you call “evangelical.” If you mean denominations which label themselves “evangelical,” (Lutherans, etc.) their population is collapsing. If you mean denominations devoted to converting others by verbal proclamation, such a definition is far too subjective to pin down.

The growth rate of Pentecostals is simply unrealistic. Pentacostalism is in decline in Brazil, for instance, where most Latin American Pentacostalists recently lived. Some massive growth rates in Penteocostalism were reported in the 1970s and 1980s, but these growth rates included adherents of mainstream religions (including Catholics and mainstream Protestants, called charismatics) which had adapted Pentecostalist worship styles or beliefs. The charismatic movement, however, is in a state of utter collapse. Further, many of the so-called Pentecostalist movements have degraded (or lapsed backward) into syncretist movements that are absolutely non-Christian.

[Quix]

[grin] Our poor Romanist FRiends are really grabbing for straws. The commentary after the title was quite a leap, from one liberal seminary in Kalifornia to all Protestant seminaries.

That fish can leap!

Using the same logic I guess we could conclude that all Romanist seminaries are filled with gay men.

---

INDEED.

Such Olympic Class Leaping has been a major STATION OF THE WHITE HANKY since the founding of the Vatican edifice in 300-400 AD.

[Quix]

I wondered about that. I have heard the conservative Protestant bodies are growing in the U.S. It is the mainline (liberal, non-Bible believing) denominations that are shrinking.

Found some world stats:

Group/Annual growth rate in total membership/Annual Growth Rate (compensated for growth of the world’s population)

Pentecostals 8.1% + 5.8%
Evangelicals 5.4% + 3.1%
All Protestants 3.3% + 1.0%
Roman Catholics and Others 1.3% - 1.0%

SOURCE:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_deno.htm

You mean a Vatican affiliate posted something ???UNTRUE???

WHAT A SURPRISE! /Sarcasm to the max.

INDEED.

There's a clue in your stats above . . . satan attacks the Pentecostals and Charismatics most fiercely because, in spite of all their flaws, Pentecostals do above average at AVOIDING having a form of RELIGION but denying the POWER THEREOF.

THEY HAVE ALSO HAD FOR DECADES the MOST or 2nd MOST [jockying back and forth in more recent years with the SoBaps for 1st place] vigorous and successful missionary efforts.

THAT'S ALSO A MAIN REASON THAT THE COMMUNISTS IN ASIA AND ELSEWHERE ARE MOST PUNITIVE TOWARD SUCH GROUPS AND INDIVIDUALS. The PTB KNOW such folks and Holy Spirit in them do the MOST damage to their satanic schemes and goals.

THX.

[Quix]

NOPE. YOU ARE UNMITIGATEDLY WRONG ---->!!!AGAIN!!!<----

The Pentecostals/charismatics ARE NOT in a state of utter collapse.

Somebody's talking to the WRONG missionaries.

FROM:

http://hirr.hartsem.edu/research/pentecostalism_polomaart1.html

The Spirit Bade Me Go:
Pentecostalism and Global Religion

Margaret M. Poloma
Department of Sociology
The University of Akron
Akron, OH 44325-1905

Paper prepared for presentation at the Association for the Sociology of Religion Annual Meetings, August 11-13, 2000. Washington, D.C.

[QUOTING]:

According to the well-known statistician of Christianity, David Barrett, there were an estimated 74 million ‘Pentecostals/Charismatics’, or 6% of the world’s Christian population in 1970. In 1997 he estimated that this figure had reached 497 million or 27% of the Christian population, more than the total number of ‘Protestants’ and ‘Anglicans’ combined, and only 27 years later. Barrett projects that according to present trends this figure is likely to rise to 1,140 million or 44% of the total number of Christians by 2025 (Anderson 1999).

FROM:

Anderson, Allan

1999 "Introduction: World Pentecostalism at a Crossroads." Pp.19-31 in A.A. Anderson and W.J. Hollenweger (eds) Pentecostals after a Century. Sheffield Academic Press. Sheffield, England.

WE SEE YET AGAIN EVIDENCE OF THE HABITUAL FALSIFICATION OF FACTS AND REALITY ON THE PART OF THE VATICAN AND AFFILIATED RABID CLIQUE FOLKS.

FROM 6% TO 27% IS !!!!NOT!!!! SHRINKING, COLLAPSING!!!!

OBVIOUSLY we are dealing with futher evidence of the ELASTIC MANUALS THE VATICAN OPERATES OUT OF:
.
1. ELASTIC HISTORY FALSIFYING THEIR FOUNDING
2. ELASTIC 'BIBLE' FALSIFYING THEIR DOGMA
3. SELECTIVE ELASTIC TRADITIONS FURTHER FALSIFYING THEIR SCRIPTURE MANGLING AND HISTORY MANGLING
4. ELASTIC LOGIC
5. AND HERE WE HAVE YET MORE--CLEAR EVIDENCE OF THEIR ELASTIC MATHEMATICS!

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[Quix]

MORE evidence your assertions are !!!!WRONG!!!!

Thankfully, it's highly likely that a good number of Charismatic Roman Catholics et al are on the CORRECT, BIBLICAL SIDE of such statistics as follow.

http://www.mb-soft.com/believe/txc/pentecos.htm

General Information

Pentecostalism, a worldwide Protestant movement that originated in the 19th century United States, takes its name from the Christian feast of Pentecost, which celebrates the coming of the Holy Spirit upon the disciples.

Pentecostalism emphasizes a postconversion experience of spiritual purification and empowering for Christian witness, entry into which is signaled by utterance in unknown tongues (Glossolalia / Speaking In Tongues).

Although Pentecostalism generally aligns itself with Fundamentalism and Evangelicalism, its distinguishing tenet reflects roots in the American Holiness movement, which believed in the postconversion experience as entire sanctification.

Pentecostalism grew from occurrences of glossolalia in the southern Appalachians (1896), Topeka, Kans. (1901), and Los Angeles (1906). Working independently, Holiness movement preachers W R Spurling and A J Tomlinson in the South, Charles Fox Parham in Topeka, and William Seymour in Los Angeles, each convinced of general apostasy in American Christianity, preached and prayed for religious revival.

Generally rejected by the older denominations, Pentecostals long remained isolated and were reluctant to organize. Now, however, several groups belong to the National Association of Evangelicals in the United States and to the World Council of Churches. The largest multicongregational Pentecostal body in the United States is the Assemblies of God, with an inclusive membership of about 2.1 million (1988). Today the Pentecostal movement is spread over the world; it is particularly strong in South America and has an estimated 500,000 adherents in the U S S R.

BELIEVE Religious
Information
Source
web-site
Our List of 1,000 Religious Subjects
E-mail
Paul Merritt Bassett
.
Bibliography
S M Burcess and G B McGee, Dictionary of Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements (1988); V Synan, The Twentieth Century Pentecostal Explosion in the United States (1987).

[Quix]

More documentation that Dangus' assertions above are wholesale false, i.e.

!!!WRONG!!!:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1141/is_32_40/ai_n6126995/

The rise of Pentecostalism
National [Roman] Catholic [et al] Reporter, June 18, 2004 by Marie Vianney Bilgrien

Samuel Escobar, in his book Changing Tides, quotes Fr. Franz Damen, secretary of the Bolivian bishops' conference, in saying that "according to statistics in Latin America, every hour on average, 400 Catholics join Protestant sects." Another author notes that in Brazil "there are now more Pentecostal pastors than Roman Catholic priests, and unlike the priests they are almost all native Brazilians." Why are Catholics leaving the Catholic church in such numbers--and why are they joining the Pentecostals?

Historically, popular religion, the religion of the laity, found channels of sacred power apart from the clergy through their devotions, statues, the rosary, pilgrimages, relics, apparitions and so on. Pentecostalism takes that to another level. It provides unmediated access to God. Anyone can receive the gift of tongues-learned or unskilled, rich or poor, black or white, male or female. Pentecostalism is a great equalizer. Especially in countries where the highly educated clergy controls the sacred, Pentecostalism is attractive to the poor and the uneducated.

Anyone can preach because, in the main. Pentecostal preaching is narrative in style rather than a reasoned argument. One does not have to be able to read. In oral cultures, scripture passages are repeated and memorized. Music is another basic tenet that emphasizes the participation of everyone; in Pentecostalism, voice and instruments and rhythm are important. People improvise words and move freely to the music.

At prayer meetings, everyone is invited to witness, even first-time visitors. Newcomers can join in the prayer immediately and accept a responsible role in the community. They do not have to spend years in training before they are accepted as leaders. It is not unusual for newcomers to travel immediately to other neighborhoods, states or countries to begin their missionary work. They take seriously the great commissioning of Jesus, "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations." Pentecostalism is based on personal experience rather than words. That's what makes it so potent. The experience of God is considered much more important than dogma or doctrine. Specifically,

Pentecostalism refers to the experience of the Spirit. People are slain in the Spirit, fired up by the Spirit, can speak the language of the Spirit (glossolalia). In a world that has become increasingly technological, Pentecostals manifest elemental forms of religiosity-dance, dreams, visions--that give them security in the midst of the constant chaos of the postmodern world around them.

At times, it seems, Catholics and mainline Protestants have treated Pentecost as though it is a one-time historical event, something that happened in the past. But Pentecostals live Pentecost. A favorite narrative is the Acts story of Peter and John, who were going to the temple to pray when they came across a man lame from birth. Peter said, "I have no silver or gold, but what I have, I give you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, stand up and walk." Pentecostals believe that the power of that same Spirit is at work today, and that with faith, they can heal like Jesus, Peter and John.

Another passage used by Pentecostals around the globe is Acts 19, when Paul came to Ephesus and found some disciples. He asked them if they received the Holy Spirit when they became believers. They replied that they had not even heard that there was a Holy Spirit. Paul baptized them in the name of the Lord Jesus, and when Paul laid hands on them, "the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied." Pentecostals believe this is full baptism--the fire and power of the Holy Spirit. (Many in Africa believe that the foreign missionaries kept full baptism from them and are fired up to be missionaries themselves, to give the full baptism to their friends and neighbors.)

Pentecostalism can spread fast and wide because it is tied to an experience, not to a geographical place or structure or even a culture. The missionaries can come to any section of any city and begin praying and invite others to join them. Community is almost instantaneous. People pray in their own language, witness in their own language or speak in the language of the Spirit.

Pentecostalism continues to expand at an exponential rate. It spreads from Sicily, where women are attracted to the churches because they can have equal participation, to Korea, where the largest church community in the world is made up of 800,000 Pentecostals. Harvard Divinity School professor Harvey Cox has visited and studied Pentecostals in many parts of the world. Quoting David Barrett, who is an expert in religious statistics, Cox says there are over "400 million Pentecostals"--and the number is growing--and that "one in every four Christians" is a Pentecostal.

Has Luther's "priesthood of all believers" finally come to pass? And is anyone in the Catholic church paying attention?

[School Sister of Notre Dame Marie Vianney is a professor of moral theology at the Greco Institute in Shreveport, La.]

COPYRIGHT 2004 National Catholic Reporter
COPYRIGHT 2004 Gale Group

[Quix]

Here’s another interesting ref re black global Pentecostalism:

http://forum-network.org/lecture/black-pentecostalism-global-context-iv

[GCC Catholic]

National [Roman] Catholic [et al] Reporter,

The National Catholic Reporter is a poor source to use... aside from not really being Catholic, it is a liberal rag (think NY Times, Washington Post, et al.).

Also, they fail to distinguish between (or even to mention) the Catholic Charismatic movement, which is within and endorsed by the Church, and the rest of the movements called "Pentecostal" which are wholly Protestant in nature and tone.

[Quix]

More good refs:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/search/?query=Walter+J.+Hollenweger+&type=word

The Rise of Pentecostalism: Christian History Interview - Pentecostalism's Global Language

interview with Walter J. Hollenweger

It's not tongues but a different way of being a Christian.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/1998/issue58/58h042.html

being a Christian. interview with Walter J. Hollenweger | posted 4/01/1998 12:00AM. Why is Pentecostalism so popular? It is

The Rise of Pentecostalism: Recommended Resources

editors

The Rise of Pentecostalism

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/1998/issue58/58h045.html

Swiss-born Walter J. Hollenweger takes a global perspective on Pentecostalism in Pentecostalism: Origins and Developments Worldwide

The Pentecostal Tradition

Stanley M. Burgess

A sampling of ecstatic experiences reported in different eras of church history

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/1998/issue58/58h040.html

Tradition: Charismatic Movements in the Twentieth Century and Pentecostalism: Origins and Developments Worldwide by Walter J. Hollenweger.

The Rise of Pentecostalism: Recommended Resources

editors

The Rise of Pentecostalism

http://www.ctlibrary.com/ch/1998/issue58/58h045.html

Swiss-born Walter J. Hollenweger takes a global perspective on Pentecostalism in Pentecostalism: Origins and Developments Worldwide

The Pentecostal Tradition

Stanley M. Burgess

A sampling of ecstatic experiences reported in different eras of church history

http://www.ctlibrary.com/ch/1998/issue58/58h040.html

Tradition: Charismatic Movements in the Twentieth Century and Pentecostalism: Origins and Developments Worldwide by Walter J. Hollenweger.

The Rise of Pentecostalism: Christian History Interview - Pentecostalism's Global Language

interview with Walter J. Hollenweger

It's not tongues but a different way of being a Christian.

http://www.ctlibrary.com/ch/1998/issue58/58h042.html

Walter J. Hollenweger is the leading expert on worldwide Pentecostalism, which he has been studying for more than 40 years.

[Quix]

MORE EVIDENCE OF GROWTH INSTEAD OF "COLLAPSE:"

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/1998/issue58/58h045.html

The Rise of Pentecostalism: Recommended Resources

The Rise of Pentecostalism

editors | posted 4/01/1998 12:00AM

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ADVERTISEMENT

Overviews and Surveys

One of the main works on Pentecostal history is also one of the easiest reads: Vinson Synan's The Holiness-Pentecostal Tradition: Charismatic Movements in the Twentieth Century (Eerdmans, 1997). This revision of the 1971 The Holiness-Pentecostal Movement in the United States will likely be as influential as the original.

While Synan's book provides an overview of Pentecostalism from Holiness camp meetings to charismatic Catholics, Edith Blumhofer takes a focused approach in her Restoring the Faith: The Assemblies of God, Pentecostalism, and American Culture (University of Illinois, 1993)—though her discussion ends up ranging wider than the title suggests.

Swiss-born Walter J. Hollenweger takes a global perspective on Pentecostalism in Pentecostalism: Origins and Developments Worldwide (Hendrickson, 1997), a follow-up to his landmark 1969 book The Pentecostals (translated into English in 1972).

Any student of Pentecostalism should own a copy of The Dictionary of Pentecostal and Charismatic Movements (Zondervan, 1988). It contains more than 800 entries (and 300 photographs) written and edited by the top scholars of Pentecostalism; it includes everything from biographical sketches to lengthy discussions of theological distinctives.Getting specific

Fields White Unto Harvest: Charles F. Parham and the Missionary Origins of Pentecostalism (Arkansas, 1988) by James Goff, Jr. examines Parham as "a symbol for the sociological origins of Pentecostalism." Don't let the abstract introduction fool you; from Parham's frontier roots to his fall into obscurity and rejection, his life is fascinating.

One of Pentecostalism's most fascinating personalities was Aimee Semple McPherson, whose life is presented empathetically and thoroughly in Edith Blumhofer's Aimee Semple McPherson: Everybody's Sister (Eerdmans, 1993).

Serpent handling is a minuscule segment of Pentecostalism—about 0.005 percent—but David L. Kimbrough's Taking Up Serpents (University of North Carolina, 1995) is so good we had to include it. It's sympathetic and insightfully descriptive.Films and Videos

Robert Duvall's The Apostle (October Films, 1997) is a powerful and sympathetic portrayal of an amalgamation of Pentecostal preachers. Duvall should have won that Best Actor Oscar—it's the closest you can get to a classic Pentecostal church service without actually attending one.

C. T. L. Productions has produced two videos about Azusa Street: From Tragedy to Triumph: The William Seymour Story and God's Glorious Outpouring: The Azusa Street Revival. Call (800) 727-3218 to order.The Web

Azusa Street (http://www.dunamai.com/brightspot/azusa.htm) includes primary sources from the revival. There's a hyperlinked Pentecostalism timeline at http://www. li.net/~rlongman/histpent.html. For a more academic look, check out the Cyberjournal for Pentecostal-Charismatic Research (http://web2010.com/pctii/cyber/).

Christian History online (http://www.christianhistory.net) includes links to these and other Pentecostal history sites in our Pages of History area. We also hope to include "extras," like sound clips of Aimee Semple McPherson preaching.Back issues

Two Chistian History back issues have addressed Pentecostalism's roots: Issue 23 (Spiritual Awakenings in North America) and Issue 45 (Camp Meetings & Circuit Riders). Call (800) 806-7798 to order.

Copyright © 1998 by the author or Christianity Today International/Christian History magazine.
Click here for reprint information on Christian History.

[Quix]

Thanks for yet another demonstration of the Roman Catholic et al rabid clique compulsive reflex to throw rocks at wherever THE TRUTH might surprisingly be found.

Most Proddys hereon are aware that

1. Unless it decends from Heaven on a white hanky;

or

2. Is published in an infallable sacred encyclical from the Pope and his grand band of bureaucratic magicsterical political power-mongers

that ANYthing else can't POSSIBLY have ANYthing to do with the masses of Roman Catholic et al SHEEPLE who seem to usually pay little attention to such things--instead preferring to suck up to the poisonous milk of such officially sanctioned seductions to blasphemy and idolatry as Ferraro's TEN SERIES OF MEDITATIONS ON THE MYSTERIES OF THE ROSARY.

[Joya]

Thank you, Quix.

Good job.

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