Posted on 05/27/2010 1:23:54 PM PDT by zzeeman
What I find truly amazing is your ability to put words together in a complete sentence that is truly easy to read and very interesting as well. I find people with that ability simply amazing, and would like to thank you for it, because I learn everyday from FR.
As far as advice, I have nothing to contribute that hasn’t already been said, but would like to post an observation.
You have the intelligence and inner strength to overcome any and all the problems you describe. Follow your instincts because yours are much sharper than those you have been associating with in the past.
Thank You for posting this vanity, and remember...only those that have subscribed to read vanities will get to read them, so never feel you need to apologies for your efforts.
Randy Larsen
That’s interesting. I was thinking while I was reading your original post that you seem to have become sober and grown in more ways than one. “The Truth will set you free” is also true in things other than religion.
The people at that particular AA group are apparently still drunk, but on Leftist Kool-Aid instead of alcohol.
What’s more sad is that they don’t want anything to interfere with the feeling they get from drinking that political kool-aid and encouraging one another in their intoxication.
Doesn’t seem much of a positive atmosphere to me.
God bless you, and yours, to continue to grow and strengthen in positive ways.
I would actually prefer to find a group that stays close to the "AA has no opinion on outside issues..." I really don't want to be distracted by political or any other outside issues in a meeting. I may be a bit odd, but I would never think about wearing a hat, button, or shirt in an AA meeting that contained any sort of political message. And I am not going to subject myself to others that do.
Thank you very much IC for your thoughts and blessings!
As I noted in a post above, my (limited) experience with the church-based groups is that there isn't a lot of "singleness of purpose" in them and things get pretty diluted fairly fast!
Thanks for your input!
IMO, you are very correct. I have not taken any of this lightly and am treading very cautiously. Ever couple of weeks I get to travel out to a more rural part of the state and usually get to take in a meeting out there with a long-time friend. (The funny thing is that he has the opposite take: he is a bit left-leaning (I am working on him feverishly!) and is sometimes bothered by the "right wing" politics that he claims leak into the meetings that he attends!)
However, is it always the case that an alcoholic has to go to 4 meetings a week, have a sponsor, etc., or is their normally a time when that ends?
Let me take these one by one:
1. It is not "strictly" defined. In almost all cases new people are advised to go to at least 90 meetings in their first 90 days. A lot of people may continue close to that pace for a year or so. Then some cut back a bit. My former sponsor was one of those "a meeting everyday" types and a lot of people that go to the meeting I attended 3 or 4 days a week, also attended an evening meeting everyday as well, some of them have been going to 2 meetings a day for decades. In most groups they will stress as many meetings per week as possible. I was sort of an outlier in my group since I would only attend a few a week.
2. Sponsorship is recommended ASAP and continues forever. A person may change sponsors from time to time, depending on circumstances, but some have the same one for decades.
3. No, it never ends. An AA member is encouraged to continue for the rest of their lives. In fact, very often the stated or subtle message is that you are sure to drink if you ever stop going to meetings, etc.
The advice above that says “move” may or may not be practical. Certainly, if your life depends upon it, move, whether that is practical or not.
There are a lot of other issues that would be solved by a geographic move, one day we hope to be able to do just that, but it won't be to find better meetings.
Is there perhaps an online AA type forum where you can get support that doesn’t involve politics, or that involves more conservative politics?
Politics or any other outside issues (i.e., that are beyond the scope of finding and maintaining sobriety) are never supposed to be a part of any AA environment. It is just that human nature leads people astray, and AA certainly isn't the only place that things like that happen!
It seems to me that what you are doing is no longer working, because it is causing you a lot of anxiety and stress. That is not what a sponsor or an AA meeting is supposed to be about! It does not seem to be your fault.
Yes you are correct, that is why I don't go to that meeting any longer. I started to get very edgy on my way to that meeting for weeks, and would sit there feeling like I was in a room with Martians or something. And why I went through a series of steps to see if I could maintain my relationship with my prior sponsor. Had he never crossed the line originally (starting in with all that political crap way before the election, and continuing it all along), none of this would have ever come up with him. I had known him for years before the obama-mania started and I had no clue as to what his politics were, and I didn't really care to find out! Because of the long lasting (and very beneficial for the most part), I probably would have been willing to stay with this guy if he did 2 things: 1. Agree to sit down and at least let me give him so info and data so that he could get his eyes opened up a bit. and 2. Agreed to keep any political talk completely out of our sponsor-sponsee relationship. But that last conversation that we had, where he kept repeating all of that AA party line stuff about "not wanting to re-join the debating society" and "that his best thinking got him there...." and so on, really sealed the deal. There is no way that I could ever deal with a person that I now have so little respect for.
I am hoping that I will soon find a Conservative man in AA that I can ask to be my sponsor, I am sure that one will turn up at some point!
[ALL:
I realize that using the word "Distress" in this thread title was a mistake, I'm sorry for that. I was feeling that I was in "distress" after that phone call (leaving a sponsor after many years is always tough), especially since I was so "shocked" at the pap and pabulum that this guy had as his only response. But it wasn't something that I wouldn't get over rather quickly, I sort of panicked in the sense of using that word in the title!
Also, I had no idea that so many people would reply, and with such useful and helpful thoughts and concern. I appreciate it very much and am trying to work my way through the thread as quickly as I can. I am trying to enjoy some time with the family over this holiday weekend, and get caught up on some overdue chores as well. So I am not at the computer very much over the past few days. As I have more time I will continue to read and respond, and thanks to all that took the time to read and respond here, and have a very nice weekend as we remember those that gave their all in defense of our freedom and liberty tomorrow! God bless them all!]
Thanks Wolfcreek. I was a functional alcoholic (by my choice for many years) until I couldn’t function any longer. If that ever happens to you, I’m sure that you know that you can get help. Be well!
Thank you Boiling point. A lot of good advice in your post. I’m sure that I will find a sponsor that I can trust and respect some day soon. Best wishes for your son and his sobriety as well!
More so in some meeting types. As discussed a bit above in this thread, one of the "problems" with that particular meeting is that it was a "discussion / meditation" meeting. After a couple of daily readings (one from an AA book, the other from a Hazelden book) it was really "free reign" in that anybody could just bring up whatever was on their mind. (The only "guideline" being that it somehow relate to alcoholism, but it was rarely, if ever, enforced to any degree.)
There are other meeting types such as "Big Book" where the discussion is supposed to be about a reading from the Big Book, or "Step" in which the discussion is supposed to relate to a section of the "12 Steps and 12 Traditions" book that the group reads. In my experience, meetings of this type tend to stay a bit more focused on the topic, but not always.
People are people, and if someone has a bug up their backside to "share" about something, they usually easily find a way to work it into the discussion.
Thank you for your reply and good wishes!
It’s your life, the only thing God gave you that is really yours. Don’t waste it.
I agree, that is good advice!
I agree with the above. The vast majority of them are lazy and/or ignorant (and the deliberate dumbing down of our schools and society is a direct cause), I think that the % of them that are actually true Statists (and fully understand what they are "supporting" is very small). Those that are a part of AA also have the disadvantage that I mentioned above (being brainwashed to be deathly afraid of their "stinking thinking" and believing that "re-joining the debating society" is deadly for them).
For me, the easy answer is to just fall in to the trap of "hating" them. I do not want to do that. But on the other hand, I refuse to waste my time pretending to "like" people that I consider to be enemies of our Country. In particular, I will not sit in the intimate environment of an AA meeting and pretend to be a part of the group. Fortunately we all still have freedom of association!
THanks for your thoughts and reply YellowRoses!
Unfortunately, AA strives hard to convince everyone that if they do not remain fully committed to their program, they will end up drunk again. Self-supporting agenda items should always be examined very carefully! JMO.
Thank You KC Burke. I will look for that book (Heretics) that you mentioned, I had not heard of it before.
A FReeper that is also a FoB has contacted me and we've connected by phone already. He is from a part of NJ that isn't too far away. And you are correct, checking in on FR is a real blessing for me. It helps me to understand that there are many other people out there that share my beliefs (and aren't willing to just roll over and die). Thanks again!
One has to wonder about an organization that focuses on failure (You’ll always be an alcoholic!) rather than success ( I USED to be a drunk).
Let's break down your post into manageable chunks and see if we can tackle them one at a time.
Congratulations on your 4 years of recent sobriety, and for sticking it out with attending meetings even though there are aspects of them that are rubbing you the wrong way. As with all things "AA", when dealing with a problem, the answers can often be found in the steps, traditions or promises, and ALWAYS found in the bible. Sometimes, they can be found in the common wisdom or platitudes you hear tossed around at meetings.
1) Lets start with these statements: "Disillusioned with AA" "Blue part of NJ" "people in the rooms are very liberal and very loud " "I know that politics isn't supposed to be a part of AA ".
The traditions say that "Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon A.A. unity ". It sounds like the meeting is fragmenting because politics is interfering with the primary purpose of the meeting - recovery from Alcoholism. Answer this question in your own thinking - who is distracted from the primary goal - them or you? If politics has become a main focus of the meeting, then you need to find another meeting. On the other hand, if you are allowing yourself to be distracted from the primary goal of sobriety, you need to refocus and stop taking other people's inventory.
2) I'm sure you are familiar with the "people, places and things" that each individual in AA must avoid in order to maintain their sobriety. They are different for each individual. It just might be that politics is one of those things that needs to be managed very carefully in your life, because it sounds like a trigger to build resentments. We are all interested in politics here on FR, but in your case (and in the case of some other FOB's on FR), politics has to be designated as a second level interest. Sobriety and maintenance of your spiritual condition must come first.
3) Your conversation with your sponsor seems to indicate that after the "usual pleasantries" the conversation immediately went to politics. Remember that your sponsor is your partner in sobriety - an objective mirror of your condition, if you will. He is not your political debating partner, and politics should have no place in your relationship. Sounds like you guys need to get together and perhaps pray together that your AA relationship can get back to the true matter at hand.
The business of life is fraught with distractions and that is very dangerous to FOB's, particularly when you've got some sobriety time under your belt. There are things of importance that surpass politics, and the maintenance of your spiritual condition is way up at the top of the list.
If you can honestly say that politics is not interfering with your serenity then I'm sure you can just deal with things as they are. But frankly, based on your post, it sounds to me like you're getting a bit distracted. Try refocusing. Make amends with your sponsor for getting off-track. Maybe take a breather from FR altogether - because FR is primarly a one-sided venue and it tends towards grandstanding the conservative side of things (not that there's anything wrong with that). However, this type of environment/pep-rally is not the place to find serenity.
Peace be with you, thanks for listening.
Would it be safe to draw some conclusions about addictions and liberalism? Is there data regarding the number of people who see the conservative light once they are sober?
I just picked out this one section to comment further. I would be interested in seeing and data/info on your 2nd question above. So far, I haven't seen any.
As to your first question, the more I think about this aspect, I am coming to believe that my supposition in the original post is worth pursuing:
I've noticed that a lot of the people in the rooms carry around a lot of guilt with them over their past behavior. I fully understand the point of Steps 4-9. I get it. But what I sense is that a lot of people in the rooms still "feel very badly" about what they have done in the past (I still do at times), even after long periods of sobriety. Since they don't want to "re-join the debating society" and are often deathly afraid of their "stinking thinking," it seems to be human nature to gravitate to the easy answer. In this case, to align themselves with the party that claims to be "for the people, esp. the disadvantaged and other so-called victims," the party that talks about "social justice" without ever really explaining what it is. In short, if you feel real guilty about your past, are trying to "live a better life" now, and are too afraid to be willing to actually "think" about anything like this, or engage in any "debates," are you very susceptible to become and/or remain a useful "tool" that blindly supports a leftist/Statist agenda?
I really think that many people in the rooms have fallen into this trap. And, because so many of them attend a meeting almost daily, they keep hearing the same indoctrination, over and over. And if, think about it, if you spend almost all of your free/social time within that group, you really don't have much of an opportunity to meet others, and explore alternative sources of information, news, and history. In a way, they are completely trapped within their ignorance.
Thanks Donna. I agree with your input in general terms. However, for a number of reasons (chief among them is living within such a decidedly “blue” population), I actually haven’t found much overlap in the Conservation and AA subsets. However, even in NJ, the solution set (intersection of Conservatism and AA) is not a Null Set, I have met a FReeper that is also an AA member in NJ!
Welcome to Free Republic. Best of luck to you!
I went from liter a day to stone cold sober in three days and that was seven years ago.
I agree. By the time I came back the last time (4 years, 5 months ago), I had thoroughly messed up my life to the point that I was drinking 1+ liters of Absolut or Grey Goose daily just to "get by" for the day. I was able to stop "cold turkey" (without any detoxing, etc.) by simply resuming the practice of dropping to my knees and asking my Lord to help me to stay sober each day. I know that it doesn't always work that way for everyone, and that some people require much more medical, etc. intervention.
Big hat tip to you on your seven years of success! I've heard a bit about RR in the past, I will take a closer look. Thanks.
Thank B4Ranch. I see myself (and that other guy too, if I look hard enough!) in the mirror each day. You’re right, FR is a great place to be! Thanks again!
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