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To: SunkenCiv

Not a fan of Sparta?

I’ve never seen any real evidence the Spartans were trying to get Persia to smash Athens for them. I would assume even the Spartans were smart enough to realize the Persians would see them as at least as big a threat and would leave them no independence.

The Spartans were already quite predominant in the Pelopponnese and had been for a long time, it’s not like this was some long-thwarted ambition.

I’m no expert on Sparta, but from what I’ve read I think they weren’t much interested in the outside world until the Persian War dragged them into it. They just wanted to stay home, dominate the Pelopponnese, bully and murder helots and bugger little boys.

You are absolutely right about this myth that the Greeks united in resistance to the Persians. Probably a good many more Greeks supported the Persians, although perhaps sometimes unwillingly, than supported the “Greek resistance.” Come to think of it, much like the famous “French Resistance.”


10 posted on 05/26/2010 7:57:32 PM PDT by Sherman Logan (When buying and selling are legislated, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.)
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To: Sherman Logan

Not a fan. Check out “The Spartans” — not least because Bettany Hughes is the host and narrator, and wears tight jeans, *and* walks away from the camera a lot. ;’) The Spartans were a creepy bunch of assholes. And there’s no doubt about Sparta’s taking money from the Persians, a quick search will turn it up.

I’m not particularly a fan of Periclean Athens, either; the wonderful Age of Pericles gave us at least four monumentally great playwrites — but much of their work overlapped the Pelopponnesian War, and was written and acted during the time when the walls were closing in on the city; the plays wouldn’t have been great had it not been for the stress. Equating something more with something less, it’s akin to the Big Band era which corresponds with WWII.

Athens could have spent its time productively, but nooooo. Athens could even have acted militarily during the long truce that followed its defeat (on land, btw, contrary to the usual idea still taught that the war was stalemated because Athens couldn’t face Sparta on the land, and Sparta couldn’t face Athens on the sea) of Sparta at Pylos, to (for example) free the Messenians and thus deprive the Spartans of a big source of ill-gotten gain.

Sparta couldn’t deal with walls, had no siegecraft, and during the long truce Athens would have done well to wall off Sparta from the northern parts of Greece, and confine it to a small area. But, the Athenians were not too bright. They launched a massively difficult invasion of Sicily instead, lost a large force of men and most of the ships, and par for the course, the joker who hatched the scheme was basically ostracized (not through the official process) and fled to Sparta before the ships even launched.


12 posted on 05/26/2010 8:12:00 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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