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The Women of Lost
4 8 15 16 23 42 - Official Lost Season 6 Thread
Posted on 05/23/2010 5:07:40 PM PDT by Lucky9teen
4 8 15 16 23 42 - Official Lost Season 6 Thread
It's not that his opinion is wrong, which it is, its that his facts are wrong.
The Island was clearly not purgatory. It's not even open for some sort of interpretation that that was the case. The people went there and lived and died and some left and went back to the world.
It's like somebody arguing that Moby Dick was a dolphin.
Found this post on Lostpedia—it says it all...
I no longer care...
About all the unanswered questions, the dangling plot lines, the outrigger, the sickness ALL of it.
Count me up as one of the answer people. Before the final started i had convinced myself that if they didn’t give me some serious answers it would have pissed me off.
But after watching that beautiful final.. I’ve learned to just let it all go. When it comes down to it, for me, lost was all about the characters. Jack, Kate, Claire, Ben...and could the end of these characters have been any more fitting?
I’m so..satisfied..so touched...it..was just perfect. I feel sorry for the people who can’t ‘’let go’’
__________________
This post is written by someone from Bad Robot:
Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I’ve had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John’s questions about Dharma and the “pointless breadcrumbs” that really, weren’t so pointless ...
First ...
The Island:
It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people’s heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a “Protector”. Jacob wasn’t the first, Hurley won’t be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him — even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.
Thus began Jacob’s plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn’t do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn’t take a more active role, then his plan would never work.
Enter Dharma — which I’m not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by “corrupting” Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben’s “off-island” activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the “Others” killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that’s what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn’t do for himself.
Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB’s corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That’s a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma’s purpose is not “pointless” or even vague. Hell, it’s pretty blantent.
Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his “candidates” (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of “candidates” through the decades and letting them “choose” which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn’t. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector — I know that’s how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won’t answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.
In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he’d always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we’ll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...
Now...
Sideways World:
Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least — because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer’s room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we’re all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it’s not exactly the best word). But these people we’re linked to are with us duing “the most important moments of our lives” as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It’s loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.
The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this “sideways” world where they exist in purgatory until they are “awakened” and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show’s concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own “Sideways” purgatory with their “soulmates” throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That’s a beautiful notion. Even if you aren’t religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.
It’s a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events — not JUST because of Jacob. But because that’s what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith — and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.
How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that’s THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.
But the writer’s took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways “purgatory” with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn’t allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died — some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley’s case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are “awakened” and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.
They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren’t in the chuch — basically everyone who wasn’t in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here’s where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It’s possible that those links aren’t people from the island but from their other life (Anna’s parnter, the guy she shot -— Roussou’s husband, etc etc).
A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn’t go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can’t move on yet because he hasn’t connected with the people he needs to. It’s going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley’s number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It’s really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.
But, from a more “behind the scenes” note: the reason Ben’s not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn’t believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It’s pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church — but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder — the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ’s ending. And they kept it.
For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I’ve been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I’ve loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.
In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don’t touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story — even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.
Bumping to change my tagline
It was a TV show. Sheesh. Get your gospel in Church.
I have loved this show so much and cried lots of tears as I watched the final episode. Thank you for you insights and recaps.
“Sheesh” right back at you. That’s what the “Alert” was for.
You chose an appropriate FReeper name, by the way.
great show over all, and great ending.......makes one think about getting that chance when you die to resolve your lives conflicts, to make up for some things...
sad all over again.....
I am really going to miss Jack and Kate and Hurly and ...
doesn't anybody think about their death?...whether we might be given a chance by a merciful God to redemn themselves?...to make right past wrongs?...to be able to acknowledge defeat, or victory, or to be a hero to someone?
this show was all about love,sacrifice,forgiveness,redemption......
I guess those that loved the show and the finale are people of FAITH...not people of science,where every little thing has to be explained ad nauseum as to its possibility...
thanks ABC.....great job..
to my Catholic brain purgatory is the place you go because you’re not good enough for heaven “yet”....you get there eventually....and those that are pretty good people but not perfect get there faster than the ones who are only a little good.....such is my recollection of St. James grade school....
I loved the ending and the series was television's high water mark. I think it will stand alone for a very long time.
From 10pm EST up until about 10:45pm, we were timing the show segments vs. the commercial segments. During that period, they literally alternated 5 minutes of show with 5 minutes of commercials. It was disgusting. Worse yet, half of the commercials were for their own crappy ABC show promotions, so they weren't even making money off of them.
Those fans most interested with the mysteries/mythology of the series will be somewhat disappointed as many important questions (the numbers, lack of fertility, MIB and Jacob’s real identities, the Dharma initiative sponsors from MI, etc.) have been left unresolved.
Put me in the latter camp - probably due to my math/science background and interest. I'm not content to just accept what happens in my surroundings with no explanation, and only focus in on the people around me, since I'm not really that much of a "people person." I want to know why things around me happen - the rules of the game, the physics and rationale behind the environment I live in so I can understand it and potentially use it to my advantage. The physical universe and rules governing the island were NEVER explained. For me, no closure at all. A very frustrating show.
The writers were definitely more in the "man of faith" vs. the "man of science" camp, effectively thumbing their nose at science fiction fans. They might as well have had the Keebler Elves living in a tree somewhere on the island, populated it with unicorns and dinosaurs, or had the castaways be visited by Santa Claus. Would have made about as much sense.
I loved the episode but it didn’t answer the questions that have been with me since the beginning...I think that bodes well for a movie.
...and Sawyer - got better looking with every season.
Well I’ve read up to post 142, the rest will have to wait til tomorrow. I watched all the seasons over the last 2 months, even every episode of season 6 again. I am glad I did. Loved the finale. So far I haevn’t read my theory, that they all died when the nuke went off and the island went to the bottom of the ocean. Everything else was the purgatory experience. It will take awhile and a couple of rewatches to cement that. Just thought I would throw it out there. Hope this thread keeps going for awhile.
I totally did not walk away from this thinking that the Ajira Plane crashed. It was the original Oceanic wreakage. I also think that the Flash Sideways WAS a form of purgatory, limbo whatever you call it, and the bright light outside the church door was heaven.
Thats just my take.
I knew it I knew it!! Thanks for posting this.
I don't understand how people are so"lost" on the whys and the wherefores.....pretty simple show.....love,love, love...honor, sacrifice...redemption....
to me the whole Lost exp for the characters was one of people who died, but carried such heavy guilty and unhappy loads that God afforded them time to work it out...
what better way than a secretive island with mystical powers and every scary and intimidating thing you can imagine thrusting our Losties to "live together" or "die alone".....
what kind of heart so cold couldn't break up 1000x when Charlie reunited with Clare, or Sawyer with Juliet, or when Kate and Jack finally said "I love you" and embraced and kissed....
who could not be moved by Kate gingerly bringing Jack along to the church to get ready to "leave"......knowing full well what she meant....
what a finale....beyond my expectations.....
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