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To: BruceDeitrickPrice
Although she gave the example of an illiterate Pakistani student, most ESL students are Spanish speakers. Spanish is the most phonetically pure language I know. Other than a couple tricky sounds like the Spanish "r" and "rr", you can teach someone how to pronounce and even accent any Spanish word on sight within about an hour. Remembering that "H" is silent and the rules for hard and soft "g" needs reinforcement, but it is a very phonetic language with few exceptions. I can't imagine anyone who knows Spanish thinking that Whole Word is the way to teach kids.

Next, the phonics vs. whole word really only matters for beginners learning to say words. Phonics won't help you learning that a bat, cat and rat are different and what they mean, even though you can pronounce them.

3 posted on 05/10/2010 1:47:06 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (I am so immune to satire that I ate three Irish children after reading Swift's "A Modest Proposal")
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To: KarlInOhio

I read Flesch a few years ago. He’s amazing. So many students have been harmed by whole word.


4 posted on 05/10/2010 1:49:13 PM PDT by BenKenobi
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To: KarlInOhio

I never knew what it was called - but I guess it was phonics. When I was 18 I went to a Norwegian language camp in Norway. They started us off in the mornings just reciting sentences in Norwegian. They did not explain to us what the words meant. (Some of the teachers gave us “hints”.)

The afternoon was spent learning the alphabet. After a few days of learning the alphabet they told us to write down the sentences that we had been speaking (and memorized). We all thought - WHAT!? They returned our papers with the parts wrong underlined in red - and fix it and return it. After a few times we got it right. It was pretty amazing to see how well we did with such a seemingly impossible task.

Later on we were told what the words actually meant, and then learned new words to expand our vocabulary.

After the language camp I was hiking in the mountains of Norway and was ordering some stuff from a mountain hut. All in Norwegian. I got stumped though when the gal asked me what brand of candy bar I wanted. I told her, in Norwegian, that I didn’t know what the brands were - and did she know English. (She was a 16-year old kid and of course knew english). She looked at me and said “You’re Norwegian and speak better english?” I said, “No - I’m an American and speak a little Norwegian!” (My Minnesota accent helped with the dialect too I think!)


19 posted on 05/10/2010 3:07:57 PM PDT by 21twelve ( UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES MY ARSE: "..now begin the work of remaking America."-Obama, 1/20/09)
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To: KarlInOhio

It’s true that phonics won’t help kids distinguish between a rat and a cat, but this student is an ESL student as well as a student learning to read English. Usually, I teach my students to speak English before teaching them to read. This past school year was different though because of circumstances beyond my control. I was forced to “push in” to regular classrooms this year, and I witnessed absolute abuse of this student (and others) by her whole language teacher. That is the reason why I taught her to read phonetically. As an ESL teacher though, I make sure she can first read the words, then I show her the meanings through the use of pictures, and then I have her use them in written sentences. So it’s actually become a reading/ESL lesson.


20 posted on 05/10/2010 3:10:46 PM PDT by Phonetically Speaking
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To: KarlInOhio

I think you’re right about Spanish. I know just enough to cause trouble but have had several Hispanics comment on my good pronunciation. I was surprised.

Back to phonics. In kindergarten our talkative DD memorized the little books they were supposed to read and teacher never guessed what was going on. First and second grade were disastrous. In 3rd grade, her 60-something teacher said she used a different approach and emphasized phonics. We also agreed DD needed to be tested for dyslexia, which she does have.

She is now a voracious reader. Her reading tutors in school have all emphasized phonics and it has helped her immensely.

The boys, however, learned to read all right with the school’s blended approach. But they both had older teachers who supplemented with phonics.


27 posted on 05/10/2010 6:00:31 PM PDT by Cloverfarm (This too shall pass ...)
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