Posted on 04/12/2010 8:40:43 PM PDT by Lorianne
Looks like you were right! The gravitational effects win out over the opposing effects due to the high speed of the satellite.
“the relativistic time slowing due to the speed of the satellite of about 1 part in 1010, the gravitational time dilation that makes a satellite run about 5 parts in 1010 faster than an Earth based clock”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System#Relativity
I particularly like this:
Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? - Matthew 20:15
After all, physicists tend to look at dark matter (the most likely suspect) through the lens of their own discipline.
No doubt Hawkins will look at black holes up front.
Geometric physicists (Vafa, Randall, etc.) will consider dimensionality (e.g. the theory that gravity is inter-dimensional and dark matter is a region of negative gravity in 4D) up-front.
Particle physicists on the other hand would likely approach the issue with the presumption of four dimensions, e.g. subatomic particles.
Thanks for the post, Alamo Girl. Would you say it is a proper extension of Occham’s Razor to submit that having 4 dimensions is more likely than having 110 dimensions?
Traditional Cosmology keeps insisting that the speed of light is constant.
This assumption is made by observing local effects at distances that are absurdly small *if* the measurements of the universe they yeild are accurate.
There is no way to prove conclusively that light speed is an absolute, or that the “laws” we formulate by observing light in our local area of the universe hold true in a universe spanning mega and giga parsecs.
(All that can be in the Mind of God, IS.)
((.....and His Mind is timeless.))
Concerning your question, the answer would depend on the observer.
An observer with 2 dimensional perception cannot intuit 3+ dimensions. Given some indirect evidence and the tools of math and logic, he might conclude a third dimension is likely. But if there is no indirect evidence of that dimension, to him it is unlikely. However if he is an observer with 3 dimensional perception ... and so on.
In the end, the total number and types of dimensions (temporal, spatial, etc.) is both unknown and unknowable. The error would be to say that other dimensions do not exist because an observer cannot perceive them directly or indirectly.
BTW, I often use that as an example why God's promise to Israel will never be broken (emphasis mine.)
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, [and] the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts [is] his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, [then] the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD. - Jer 31:33-37
I understand that and I’m totally with you on those observations.
INDEED.
The Earth is The Lord’s . . .
Well put, imho.
Much agree.
ABSOLUTELY INDEED:
BTW, I often use that as an example why God’s promise to Israel will never be broken (emphasis mine.)
But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, [and] the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts [is] his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, [then] the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD. - Jer 31:33-37
Actually I was using that example to show when I was wrong : ) I learned it the hard way when I was helping design the guidance system for the Tomahawk.
Wow! Very impressive. Thanks for your service on the program.
Of course the gravitational slowing down of the earthbound observer’s clock would depend on where he/she was on the Earth’s surface. Some locations have a higher level of gravity than others. It depends on the density of the rock below. Also, near the equator, there is an outward force (acting in the opposite direction from gravity) due to the spinning of the Earth (about 900 miles/hour at the equator).
Hmm, again I don't know for sure : ) First off the spinning of the earth doesn't affect the warping of spacetime (gravity) so the equator example seems to be wrong.
The more interesting question to me would be what would be the clock speed for a clock in the center of the earth where it would 'feel' no gravity. It is at the bottom of a gravity well so I would expect that it would be very slow, but it might be that the balancing of gravitational forces at that point produces a 'peak' in the gravitational field, counteracting the other warping?
Always keep in mind that every observer will see his clock running faster than other clocks which are moving with respect to him.
You're right! It would only affect a person's weight (making them lighter). Not sure what I was thinking there.
Also see: Sagnac distortion
“GPS observation processing must also compensate for the Sagnac effect. The GPS time scale is defined in an inertial system but observations are processed in an Earth-centered, Earth-fixed (co-rotating) system, a system in which simultaneity is not uniquely defined. A Lorentz transformation is thus applied to convert from the inertial system to the ECEF system. The resulting signal run time correction has opposite algebraic signs for satellites in the Eastern and Western celestial hemispheres. Ignoring this effect will produce an east-west error on the order of hundreds of nanoseconds, or tens of meters in position.[72]”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System#Relativity
Note: this in addition to the two other relativistic effects in my earlier Wiki post (#80):
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2491839/posts?page=80#80
Yep, the fact that simultaneity is relative leads to all kinds of unexpected consequences.
I think all of this is fun :)
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