Boy attacked by pit bull; Child remains in hospital

GB Tribune ^

[70times7]

Genetics aren’t everything.

Of course genetics are not everything. Anyone who would say that is being stupid. But no one here that I know of is saying that. And oh, by the way, since you acknowledge that "genetics are not everything", you are also conceding that they play a part; that what a dog is bred to do will influence its behavior - sometimes a little, sometimes a lot.

Smaller dogs aren’t as feared... but that doesn’t make them automatically less aggressive.

And in related news, the sky is blue! It is good to see you absorbed some of my point. I'm perplexed as to why you would restate it as a supposed defense. So far you have acknowledged that size and genetics play a part in how dangerous a dog can be. Glad you agree with me.

In the end, it’s how you train and treat your dog and how you let your dog treat others.

And here is where we part company. You imply that the danger posed by a particular dog can be eliminated by how it is trained. It can be mitigated, but it cannot be eliminated. How often has the pit bull owner described how well behaved and trained the dog was before it shredded their child or a neighbor?

The different factors that make a dog dangerous come into play with every type of dog. But when a large very strong dog with powerful jaws has a genetic background selected for aggression and fighting it makes that dog particularly dangerous. The statistics agree.

Here is an easy task for you. Do this and you will have the undying admiration of pitbulldom throughout Free Republic. Go find all of the newspaper articles where two or three unprovoked golden retrievers stormed out their front door past their owner and crossed the street to shred a child. The article should include witness accounts of how they beat and stabbed and even shot the dogs but they would not break off their attack as they ripped off the child's face and tore flesh from arms and legs. Goldens must be right at the top in numbers owned so this should be insanely easy. Goldens are not quite as strong, but they are larger and their mouths are about the same size. The only problem I can foresee is that the media bias may have reported they were pit bulls - the breeds look so similar, after all.

[as1001]

Haha, yeah, you’re right... my post-count and sign up date really matters here. Good one.

[1COUNTER-MORTER-68]

Some of us watch those things,,,

What was your other screen name...?

[70times7]

Well said. I don't cry about pits, but I do get into debates w/ those who don't seem to grasp the basic concepts you have stated. I also don't favor breed specific laws. I think the laws should hold owners accountable for what their dogs do, in some cases criminally.

Maybe pants-on-the-ground would think twice about owning one if it meant jail time rather than just a civil suit that can't take his lady's apartment anyway - but probably not.

[70times7]

Sure, I’ll agree that some people get their pits tested because of the bias, likely to try and show that the bias is largely unfounded.

Uh, no - the average pit bull owner will get it tested because they want to be sure their dog is safe. No one gets their dog tested to convince them of what they are already convinced of. If you really think (and I'm using the word loosely) owners get their pit bulls tested in order to boost pit bull statistics you are truly self deluded.

But you’re saying the “average owners” of the 721 Lab Retrievers, 831 Collies, and 720 Golden Retrievers were testing just for good fun?

Are you even aware that the rest of what you wrote agrees with what I wrote? Did you even understand what I wrote?

LOL! I'm done. I spend just too much time on these threads. I suppose it occurs to the cat eventually too - the inanimate ball of thread is fun for a while, but live prey is much more entertaining.

[wardaddy]

lol

[wardaddy]

I’m not obsessed with dog maulings but I ask you why you only care about pitbulls.

Do other breed maulings and killings not matter?

[wardaddy]

My bulldog book sez on tug to not let him win. I can handle that...somewhat.

My kids can't.

We are working very hard to socialize him...he basically lives right with us and goes and does everything we do.

My last dog was a Red Dobie who was very very guard oriented. He would sit by our See Rock City birdhouse on the deck and wait for wasps to exit so he could kill them and relished it even though they would sting him. We bred him for the breeder twice....once he was in coitus and a cat walked by and he jumped off the ladydog and chased the cat to kill it he caught it...he obviously had his priorities crossed.

We waited till the baby was big enough to be around a large breed without getting knocked over all the time to get a new dog and after much time I settled on an original Scott American Bulldog. I like Johnsons but they drool a bit since they are more English...the Scott is more Mastiff. The dog....Bedford...is sleeping near me now next to the three year old on the sofa together.... Bedford is 6.5 months and 65 pounds

Here is a pic of his daddy...he looks just like him.....exactly like him.....same blaze, mittens everything....most fun I have had with a dog in decades...and he is much nicer to people than the Dobe was...the Dobe was pure protection class. However...having been around ABDs a bit studying the breed...I have little doubt he would be all over a perceived threat.....he just doesn't seem to be on Red Alert all the time like the Dobie was...he's more like my old Rottie from the 80s.

Thi

[LongElegantLegs]

Beautiful dog! It sounds like you’re raising his son right.
I’ve never seen a black bulldog before, only white with spots. I hope he’s with your family for a long time.

[Judith Anne]

213 pounds of mastiff will win any tug of war contest with almost any human.

Dobermans are very beautiful, imo, a lovely dog and good to live with. Of course, I have come to dearly love the soft eyes and square head of my mastiff...Our breeder had the dogs she needed, she required all dogs she sold to be neutered by six months. I was sort of surprised, until we found out how many people wanted to breed their bitches to our mastiff, chiefly because of his size. She also required that the puppies be raised as house pets, chiefly for the socialization with people.

All mastiffs are guard oriented, but don’t look like it. Until you see one abandoned to sleep jump up, run to the door, and with his back hair straight up, growl in a very menacing way, all within a split second. Like your dog, they don’t SEEM to be on Red Alert all the time, but trust me, they can get there faster than you can blink.

Your Bedford is gorgeous. I used to have photos of mine but cleared off my personal page. He is ~36 inches at the shoulder, a slim 213 pounds that feels very soft until you see his muscles. Kind of catlike, likes to lean, head-bump, snuggle, sleep on his back, look around before going out the door, stuff like that.

[wardaddy]

ABD folks have resisted AKC for a while...they tend to frame the regs on UKC and NKC and black ..unless solid...is permissible...but uncommon

the most sought after are the white with spanky pirate eye patch, the Reds with yellow eyes and the blues

brindles and livers are most common

thanks for the kind words

[wardaddy]

wow..213 is big...that is Caucasian Mountain Dog big

black mask mastiffs are very pretty....I saw one last night on lead her in Franklin TN on main st during all the Irish stuff

[solosmoke]

“Tell ya what brainiac - you go right ahead and buy a border collie and train it not to herd. But a scent hound and take it for a walk and train it not to stop and sniff every 3 feet. Good luck with that. After all, it all depends on the owner.”

Have you ever heard of a Lab going on an unstoppable fetching spree? Some dogs become neurotic and uncontrollable due to boredom. Pit bulls weren’t bred to be human-aggressive, so your point about genetics is pretty much fallacious as an argument. They were bred/trained to work as gripping dogs and later to fight other dogs, all the while being pliable and submissive to people. If they weren’t, they were, for the most part, taken out of the gene pool.

There’s a reason why successful dog fighters took the time to work and train their dogs for fighting. Genetics can make it easier for some breeds to succeed at their jobs, but you wouldn’t expect an untrained border collie to be entered in a herding competition, just as dogmen didn’t just throw two dogs together.

And for the record, you can train dogs to obey commands, no matter if they’re hounds or border collies or labs or pit bulls. As a dog owner, it is up to you to direct the dog, not the other way around. Anyone who lets their dog do whatever it wants and blames genetics is an irresponsible idiot.

“Pit bulls are very strong dogs. They have large powerful jaws - close to the top of the scale for dogs.”<<<<<<

This has been proven false by the University of Georgia. They performed a study using a computerized bite sleeve to measure bite pressure from German Shepherds, Rottweilers, and Pit Bulls. The pit bulls had the weakest bite of the three, and none of the breeds tested had more than 350 psi, hardly the 2,000 that some jerk reporter made up years ago (which for some reason people took as gospel without even asking for proof).

“The statistics for Pits and Rotties show that they are disproportionately involved in attacks, and not just by a little”

That’s not true either. Pit Bulls are more popular than labs in some areas, mainly big cities. They represent close to ten percent of the entire population of dogs, according to registration numbers and shelter statistics. The amount of pit bulls that are involved in dog attacks are infinitesimally small compared to their population. Less than one percent cause any trouble, and for a population ten million strong, this means that you are using the exception to the rule to judge all of them, which is backwards.

[allmendream]

Where dogs? There dogs.

Their dogs perhaps?

[ANKE69]

Pardon me??

[allmendream]

“People need to learn how to raise, to train and to discipline there dogs....”

Where dog? There dog!

Their dog.

As in “to train and to discipline their dog”

http://www.wikihow.com/Use-There,-Their-and-They’re

Just joking with you. Sorry I had to explain it. “When you have to explain a joke there is just no point in living.” a comedian.

[ANKE69]

Well, I guess the joke is on me… =)
I didn’t notice my “bad English” until now.
Thank you, for pointing it out.
I speak, read and “try to” write, 3 different languages and sometimes it can turn into a horrible mess.

[allmendream]

Well that is two more than myself my FRiend.

English, though it gets points for “style”, isn't exactly known for its coherence or adherence to rules, etc.

It gets quite confusing even for native speakers.

I was not joking on you, I just thought it was funny to jump on your “there dog” with a “where dog?”.

Keep up the good work, you write better than many a native speaker and FR can do nothing but help. As long as you are not learning to type in all caps!

[ANKE69]

Thank you very much. That was very nice... FR has some wonderful people !! =)

[70times7]

Pit bulls weren’t bred to be human-aggressive, so your point about genetics is pretty much fallacious as an argument.

Border Collies were not bred to herd humans either, but my friend who owns one told me his dog herds his kids. Either you or he is self deluded. Hmmmm. Let me think...

Perhaps some additional evidence - I wrote: Pit bulls are very strong dogs. They have large powerful jaws - close to the top of the scale for dogs.

You replied: This has been proven false by the University of Georgia. They performed a study using a computerized bite sleeve to measure bite pressure from German Shepherds, Rottweilers, and Pit Bulls. The pit bulls had the weakest bite of the three, and none of the breeds tested had more than 350 psi, hardly the 2,000 that some jerk reporter made up years ago (which for some reason people took as gospel without even asking for proof).

So you are saying that because Shepards and Rotties had a stronger bite the statement is proven false? And by the University of Georgia no less? Wow! Are you illiterate, or just logic impaired? Go away. A Penn State University study has proved that you are clueless.