Army drops bayonets, busts abs in training revamp

Associated Press ^ | Mar 16, 2010 | SUSANNE M. SCHAFER

[DCBryan1]

Forget Ft. Jackson they train OTG’s there (Other than Infantry )

O9S grad from "relaxin' Jackson"

[exPBRrat]

Bayonets are still useful. Like entrenching tools they aren’t issued to the troops mostly because the troops use them on each other...

...at least that’s the official thinking behind it.

[I Buried My Guns]

Bayonets are cool. They are intimidating.

I think in our modern world, that is where most of its value lies.

[Jonah Hex]

Just looked up MIL-STD-1366E...crew weight planning factor for crew of 4, including body weight plus basic load = 1,366 lbs. This works out to an average weight of about 342 lbs per soldier. Remember, this is based on the spectrum of soldier weights from 5th percentile female to 95th male.

Running the numbers from the mil-std, this works out to 147 lbs for clothing, equipment, existence load, and body armor. Subtracting these numbers from the planning factor, this works out to a body weight of 195 lbs.

Bottom line, 200 lbs of soldier load may be on the high side on average, but if you once in a while throw in a mortar base plate, rounds, etc...

[taxcontrol]

Different loads for different situations. Full “ruck out” of a mech infantry unit (assume vehicle down and you now have to move without it) can easily exceed 200 lbs.

Beans, bullets, water, weather gear, radios, batteries, body armor, helmet, weapon normally is in the range of 60 lbs. And you are right, it does interfere with combat, but that is not for the individual infantry man to decide.

[Bulwyf]

Sounds like Canadian infantry training too, although 200lbs I would tend not to fully agree with, most people wouldn’t be able to carry that past 1 mile. A really loaded down heavy pack in a theatre of operations is more like 120lbs, still stupidly heavy hehe.

They soldiers need bayonets too, it is great training for in your face combat, not everything is done miles away.

[dangerdoc]

As a bonus, when they do away with DADT, they will all have fabulous abs.

[downwdims]

Bet that’s right around the rope and choke weight average. Gotta spec to the high end

[taxcontrol]

... or some man portable missiles (we humpped the Dragon), extra water or rations, tri-pod for the M2, or drill sergent forbid, the base of the M2 ... etc.

[oh8eleven]

The idea of a bayonet on an M16 is pretty ridiculous.
Ah ha, more words of wisdom from someone with how much combat experience?

[Mad Dawgg]

"I don't understand the benefit of a combat soldier carrying all that heavy gear on their backs. It seems that would interfere with agility and readiness. Please explain!"

Foot soldiers cross all sorts of terrain much of which may not have roads and thus need to carry their supplies with them. Weapons, ammo, food and water are heavy! (Not to mention first aide and med supplies, night vision gear, and mundane stuff like rain gear and rope and such.)

[Joe 6-pack]

Not to long before Just Cause in Panama, we were told the days of the mass tactical parachute drop were a thing of the past.

Just before Desert Storm, there were many saying that the days of mass armor formations were over, and even that MBT's were obsolete.

Now we're saying that bayonet drills are unecessary. Even though they showed their tactical utility as recently as Korea (Lewis Millet / Bayonet Hill) and the Falklands (Mt. Tumbledown), IMHO, the most useful aspect of the bayonet is the psychological impact it has in training and the role it plays in building aggressiveness. As long as any hand-to-hand or CQB type training is considered worthwhile, it's IMHO, foolhardy to omit the bayonet.

[Flintlock]

For crowd control, bayonets are the berries! No idiot will try to grab your rifle with something sharp on the end. As a civilian, it gives you one last option before its party time.
Just keep it SHARP. As issued, they never are.

[oh8eleven]

200 lbs.. that is the body armor, helmet,rucksack with all equipment needed for three days.
You are sadly mistaken. I was in an 8" howitzer unit and the "projectile" weighed 204 pounds.
Except in emergencies we always needed two guys just to lift it.

These kids aren't your 1960-80's soldiers.
And WTH does that mean?

[dangerdoc]

bump

[PapaBear3625]

So far I agree. However, I always fixed my bayonet..I was not issued one, but had my own...and found that most Iraqis found that more intimidating then anything else, and like a lot of things you'll never need it until you need it..

I would think that in house clearing you'll have a reasonable probability of suddenly encountering somebody at bayonet range as you turn a corner. Also, when guarding prisoners, a bayonet tends to discourage thoughts of making a grab for your rifle.

[NoDRodee]

In 80’s I did my training at Paris Island SC.
The sand was 18 inches deep the sun was very hot.

Army Rangers were on base doing close combat training, very good stuff they did. During drill or DI held us in formation to watch and learn.

Oh and nobody wants some of me in pugel sticks! lol

[Mind-numbed Robot]

And you are right, it does interfere with combat, but that is not for the individual infantry man to decide.

When I first started noticing this my thought was that it was the result of anti-American, anti-troop politicians in the Congress and the Pentagon.

The guys in previous wars didn't carry all that stuff and today's technology from communications gear, weapons, sleeping gear, to MREs are smaller, lighter and more efficient than before. Also, as I previously said, troops are never far away from supply lines for any extended period.

I am glad our troops are able to do it but I still don't see the necessity.

[ctdonath2]

[verity]

And the route was uphill...both ways. ;-)