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West Hollywood bans retail sales of dogs and cats
latimes ^ | February 16, 2010

Posted on 02/20/2010 9:43:43 AM PST by JoeProBono

The West Hollywood City Council has put an end to sales of dogs and cats in pet stores.

In an ordinance that passed unanimously Tuesday night, sales of animals in stores are now prohibited in the city.

The ordinance, unanimously approved at its first reading a few weeks ago, is just the latest piece of animal-welfare legislation the city has taken up. In 2003, West Hollywood became the first city in the country to outlaw the declawing of cats.

The new law, called the Ordinance Prohibiting the Sale of Dogs and Cats in Companion Animal Stores, is aimed at curtailing puppy mills and easing the conditions endured by animals in the puppy-mill industry, which relies heavily on sales through pet stores, officials said in a statement.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimesblogs.latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Pets/Animals
KEYWORDS: animalwhackos; cat; dog; hollywood; jpb; losangeles; westhollywood
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To: Mr Rogers

You cannot make a law against thinking of a puppy as a commodity (or a widget as you say). Tell me what a puppy mill is in a way that it could be legislated against.

I know what a good breeder is, but that is not the issue. You cannot seem to tell me what a puppy mill is.


61 posted on 02/20/2010 7:37:19 PM PST by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: Mr Rogers

Then that means that no one was breeding them to work. Show breeders did not force anyone to stop breeding working aussies.


62 posted on 02/20/2010 7:38:16 PM PST by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: brytlea

I have told you. I’ve also given some ways of cutting back on their numbers.

No law is perfect, but there are ways to reduce the number of puppy mills. We regulate all sorts of animal production and treatment - why should anyone be able to breed dogs in any manner they wish?


63 posted on 02/20/2010 7:40:02 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: brytlea

It means the number breeding for work was overwhelmed by the number breeding for cute. The Border Collies have handled it better, since the largest registry of Border Collies has fought the AKC. Aussies gave in, and now they have cute dogs.


64 posted on 02/20/2010 7:42:17 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mr Rogers

We already regulate humane treatment of dogs, especially in commercial breeding businesses.
And I”m sorry, if you have defined a puppy mill I missed it, please direct me to the post.


65 posted on 02/20/2010 7:55:53 PM PST by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: Mr Rogers

I’m only going to say this one more time (and I expect you to ignore it anyway). If people wanted working aussies, they would continue to breed them. They would not be incorporating non working aussies into their gene pools. No one is forcing them to. You can continue to repeat nonsense but it does not make it any less nonsense.


66 posted on 02/20/2010 7:57:43 PM PST by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: brytlea

When “Aussies” means a dog that looks cute, people stop searching for working ones. Most of those who bred Aussies switched to Border Collies when the reputation of Aussies as working dogs went into the toilet.

It is not only hard to find someone who still breeds them for work (there are a few, but so few that everyone I found will ONLY sell to ranches), but most folks who need working dogs refuse to look at Aussies. The brand name was destroyed, and it won’t come back.

If Border Collies comes to mean dogs that run like crazy in agility trials with no reason, or cute fluffy dogs, the brand name would also be destroyed. That it hasn’t happened yet is because most Border Collie breeders have refused to work with the AKC, and many sell their dogs with ‘no AKC’ contracts.

In post 59, I defined puppy mills. It wasn’t a legal definition, but I’m not a lawyer, and not inclined to spend the time researching how to best define them. That is why we have legislators.

I think it is utter folly for good breeders to hand the issue over to the extremists.


67 posted on 02/20/2010 8:22:53 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mr Rogers

>It means the number breeding for work was overwhelmed by the number breeding for cute. The Border Collies have handled it better, since the largest registry of Border Collies has fought the AKC. Aussies gave in, and now they have cute dogs.<

I might agree that with AKC registration, the Australian shepherd became more attractive to the pet owner, the casual breeder and yes, the show exhibitor, but I think there is more problem when dogs are bred by uneducated people, who purchase a random male and female and produce litters for pocket money than by people who breed dogs and show them.

Border collies aren’t as pretty as Aussies. They haven’t been affected by AKC registrations because, frankly, they make lousy pets as a rule. They’re hyper, they have tons of prey drive so they chase anything that moves, and they nip due to that prey drive. They’re also very, very bright and they will find things to do if their owner isn’t savvy enough to provide mental stimulation for them.


68 posted on 02/20/2010 8:31:53 PM PST by Darnright (There can never be a complete confidence in a power which is excessive. - Tacitus)
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To: Mr Rogers
>If Border Collies comes to mean dogs that run like crazy in agility trials with no reason,<

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

69 posted on 02/20/2010 8:41:43 PM PST by Darnright (There can never be a complete confidence in a power which is excessive. - Tacitus)
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To: brytlea

The way you’re nagging him to define a puppy mill tells me that you feel guilty. Well, you should. And if you’re waiting for me to backpedal, you’ll wait a long time. I despise people who breed and sell pets and I’m not much impressed with people who buy from them either, because they want a “purebred” whatever. If you want a dog, get a shelter pet. If you only want a certain kind of “purebred” then - unless it’s a working dog and only that breed does that work - you don’t want a pet, you want a toy or an accessory or a status symbol.


70 posted on 02/21/2010 8:51:36 AM PST by A_perfect_lady (I miss having a First LADY.)
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To: Darnright

If you breed dogs for show, then purpose falls to the wayside. Shows look at dogs, rather than at dog performance. Trials test dog performance, so I don’t object to that...but the shape of a Border Collie’s head doesn’t count for squat at what they do.

That is why the show dogs are very distinctive in appearance from the workers - show BCs are heavier boned, hairy, and have ‘New Zealand’ heads (more like a St Bernard).

AKC registration cost the Aussies their focus - is it good looking dogs, or dogs that can work cattle? In 1980, an Aussie looked like a tail-less BC, usually red or blue merle, slightly stockier and more aggressive with stock. Lots of ranchers running cattle loved them. Now, most ranchers wouldn’t consider seeking out an Aussie.

There is more money to be made in ‘cute’ than performance.

“They haven’t been affected by AKC registrations because, frankly, they make lousy pets as a rule. They’re hyper, they have tons of prey drive so they chase anything that moves, and they nip due to that prey drive.”

Keep spreading the bad word! I want BCs to be unpopular! However, a working bred Border Collie is NOT hyper with tons of prey drive. Dogs like that get shot on a farm, or killed by the cars passing on the highway. BCs bred for sport or show can be like that, but no farmer can afford a hyperactive dog with lots of prey drive.

That doesn’t mean they make good leave-alone pets. Someone who makes a habit of leaving a Border Collie will get what they deserve, and the BC will suffer for it. A breeder shouldn’t breed a smart dog without an off switch - but one CAN get away with it if your ‘product’ is sold on looks.


71 posted on 02/21/2010 9:42:58 AM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: JoeProBono

Well, move to East Hollywood, problem solved!


72 posted on 02/21/2010 9:44:20 AM PST by Revolting cat! (Let us prey!)
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To: Revolting cat!

73 posted on 02/21/2010 9:47:14 AM PST by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet)
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To: A_perfect_lady; brytlea; Darnright

I love the diversity of dogs, so I also appreciate good breeders. A well bred Border Collie is wonderful. A poorly bred one is hell on 4 legs.

And while I don’t need one to herd sheep, I love the breed - the intelligence, focus, intensity, and passion. I love their independence, their caution around strangers, and the way they assume responsibility for my family.

I own two other dogs as well, both of which are excellent pets. Most people prefer my mutt (friendly but quiet) & my Aussie (very friendly with no reserve) to my Border Collie (’who is this axe murderer and why have they entered my home?’).

I tried a Border Collie rescue. They decided I couldn’t handle a pure-bred Border Collie, even though I’ve owned at least one for most of the last 30 years (they didn’t approve of kids and Border Collies mixing). My inability would be a shock to the year old BC sleeping at my feet right now. It would also surprise my 12 year old daughter, who runs around outside with the BC & Aussie in hot pursuit!

So I appreciate dedicated breeders who care for their breeds and what makes that breed distinctive. I also appreciate the work done at the Pound, where two of my dogs came from. I don’t see a conflict.


74 posted on 02/21/2010 10:15:29 AM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: JLLH

I, also have a problem with backyard breeders-I have a
neighbor who used to be one-he and his wife would take their latest litter of AKC Rotties to the local flea market and sell them to any taker. Fortunately, his vet talked him into spaying and neutering his pair of Rotties, telling him they would be healthier and live longer. They certainly do seem happier, not being mobbed by puppies twice a year.

I have always contacted the AKC when I wanted a dog, and asked for the names of recommended breeders of that dog in my area-we also never considered a breeder that bred their bitches more than once a year. My husband and I would go and get a tour of the house, grounds and kennel, meet all of the dogs and be shown all the show trophies and photos in the “bragging room”. Then the kennel owner would bring the litter of 4-5 week old puppies while we sat on the floor and let one pick us by toddling right up and playing with our feet, climbing into our laps or jackets, etc. We’d put down a deposit, then bring that puppy home at 9 weeks-NEVER before, so that they are not taken from mom too young. Having adopted 5 dogs this way over the last 30+ years, my family has never been disappointed.

The puppy mill that my daughter’s Staffordshire Terrier came from also had several Quarter Horses being kept in equally terrible conditions-they went to an equine rescue facility for treatment and adoption-my daughter told me that one confiscated horse was nearly 300 pounds underweight-hearing that was enough to make me want to cry.


75 posted on 02/21/2010 12:15:45 PM PST by Texan5 ("You've got to saddle up your boys, you've got to draw a hard line")
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To: Mr Rogers

“they didn’t approve of kids and Border Collies mixing”

There are always situations to smack down those theories. Several years ago, after the death of their Schnauzer-a large one, not one of the little things-my brother and sister-in-law went to the local Greyhound rescue to adopt a recycled track dog. They saw an outgoing, beautiful brindle female, and went to the adoption office to tell them they wanted to spend some time with the dog. The lady in charge told them it was inadvisable to have a Greyhound with such small children (my nieces were 5 and 7 at the time).

My brother told them he had done his research as well, and he was pretty sure he knew what dog would be an appropriate companion for his kids. The dog went home with the family 4 years ago, and there has never been a problem with the kids-she even tolerates two cats-but she will stand right up and eat unguarded leftover from the kitchen counters. Staffordshire Terriers-one of the “pit bull” breeds-are supposed to be dedicated cat killers, among other things, but my daughter’s Staffordshire loves them.


76 posted on 02/21/2010 12:40:37 PM PST by Texan5 ("You've got to saddle up your boys, you've got to draw a hard line")
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To: Texan5
We sent them a pictures of our previous Border Collie...didn't matter. Some rescues are weird.


77 posted on 02/21/2010 2:44:40 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mr Rogers

I have explained all I’m going to about who *ruined* aussies. You can go on and on, it doesn’t mean anything other than that you’re angry that aussies are now bred for the show ring. So, I’m done with that, since there’s nothing more I can say except what I have said and I doubt anyone wants to read the same thing over and over.
As for your definition of a puppy mill. It is useless as far as making laws against them go. So, you run into the problem everyone does. They are impossible to legislate against unless you simply legislate against breeding.


78 posted on 02/21/2010 4:02:56 PM PST by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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To: JoeProBono
No dogs or cats, but all the marijuana and prostitution you want.
79 posted on 02/21/2010 4:04:15 PM PST by Vision ("Did I not say to you that if you would believe, you would see the glory of God?" John 11:40)
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To: A_perfect_lady

I think perhaps you should go back to school and get your psych degree before you start analyzing people. Really. I don’t feel the least bit guilty about something I have nothing to do with. Why should I?
If people want to legislate against puppy mills they HAVE to define the term. It’s been the biggest difficulty in getting rid of them.
I don’t expect you to backpedal, I just thought it would be good for people on this thread to see who you hate. If you hate me, it’s really alright with me. Why would I care what someone who has never met me thinks of me?
I’m quite happy with my small breeding program. My current golden champion is sleeping here under my feet. I love the fact that I can predict what sort of puppies I will produce. I also suggest that people go to shelters or pure bred rescues before they consider buying one of my puppies. But, if they want a purebred golden retriever puppy, whose parents have had clearances done and who has been bred for the delightful golden retriever temperament and beauty that people enjoy, I’m glad that people like you cannot tell them they can’t, simply because it makes you angry. Liberals are busy bodies. Conservatives believe in freedom.
Have a golden day.


80 posted on 02/21/2010 4:12:02 PM PST by brytlea (Jesus loves me, this I know.)
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