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Printing money will ZOT all our economic problems!
ME of course! | k Moriens

Posted on 01/12/2010 12:23:04 PM PST by kylemoriens

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To: sionnsar
"How are things there, anyway? I’ve not kept up with East Coast conditions, though it looks like an awful winter back there."

Somewhat atypical. Some Maryland drivers are actually learning how (or how not!) to drive in snow.

So far, we've had two snowstorms that arrived on Friday, one last night that we decided to ignore, and a supposedly major storm coming ... Friday.

I like weekend storms. So far I haven't lost power, but that would just give me a chance to catch up on my reading.

181 posted on 02/03/2010 6:38:04 PM PST by NicknamedBob (If we did not believe we could not die, we would never do the things that make us immortal.)
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To: NicknamedBob

You are fortunate. Snow and loss of electricity go hand-in-hand here. So far this winter we’ve had neither.


182 posted on 02/03/2010 6:43:58 PM PST by sionnsar (IranAzadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5:SONY|Remember Neda Agha-Soltan|TV--it's NOT news you can trust)
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To: NicknamedBob

Time to really tempt fate and button up the Linux box...


183 posted on 02/03/2010 6:44:47 PM PST by sionnsar (IranAzadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5:SONY|Remember Neda Agha-Soltan|TV--it's NOT news you can trust)
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To: sionnsar

Done. Room is a little quieter now.


184 posted on 02/03/2010 6:51:25 PM PST by sionnsar (IranAzadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5:SONY|Remember Neda Agha-Soltan|TV--it's NOT news you can trust)
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To: sionnsar

Houses would be more comfortable if they could not lose power.

I wonder why we don’t make them that way?


185 posted on 02/03/2010 7:08:40 PM PST by NicknamedBob (If we did not believe we could not die, we would never do the things that make us immortal.)
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To: NicknamedBob
Because it would require really large woodpiles outside (sort of okay here, but not in the desert)?

Don't get me started on "Net-Zero Energy" buildings (though we might be able to get there; these still rely heavily upon the grid).

Or we could rewind to when houses didn't have power. Not too comfortable in the PNW, and probably even less in MD.

186 posted on 02/03/2010 7:17:45 PM PST by sionnsar (IranAzadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5:SONY|Remember Neda Agha-Soltan|TV--it's NOT news you can trust)
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To: sionnsar

Well, we could start with building more energy-efficient buildings, including houses.

Then, when you look at supplemental energy and task-related energy applications, passive solar looks more feasible.

A properly-designed home should be comfortable or at least offer enough comfort for survivability even without grid-sourced power. A simple formula would show the proper level of fenestration.

Recapturing energy from other sources should be encouraged too.


187 posted on 02/03/2010 7:23:29 PM PST by NicknamedBob (If we did not believe we could not die, we would never do the things that make us immortal.)
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To: NicknamedBob
The problem is cost. It's not too hard to build a much more energy-efficient building, or house, but it's a little hard to justify when you spend $700k for a grid-independent house when, in the design lifetime of the house (say 50 years) you might spend, say, $400k, for grid-based energy with 99+% up-time.

Fenestration has its own issues. It's an energy-leak in winter (when you want the light the most), an energy-collector in summer (when you want heat the least) -- and yes, there are strategies and design decisions to counter these. Though in a (changing) city environment these become difficult, for all they are easier in suburbia (or super-ruralia, if I were to cut down the forest that surrounds me). Research "daylighting"; it's not that easy.

Energy from other sources, well, yes, but not all of that is so easy either.

188 posted on 02/03/2010 7:42:10 PM PST by sionnsar (IranAzadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5:SONY|Remember Neda Agha-Soltan|TV--it's NOT news you can trust)
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To: sionnsar

I agree with everything you said, but I would also like to point out that cost and energy are two sides of the same coin.

Yes, a house designed to be efficient costs more, but that investment saves energy in the long run, which saves money.

And the goal is not grid independence; it is grid mutual-dependence. Houses should be designed to feed the grid as well as feed off of it.

The problem is one of scale. Our houses are built according to the tastes and appetites of a now by-gone era, that of conspicuous consumption. We need to promote frugality, but not austerity.

Public housing such as University dormitories should exemplify the trend to maximize comfort and efficiency at the same time. It can be done.

Once it has been shown that a house can be a place that feeds you and protects you in an organic way, that should be the new standard.


189 posted on 02/03/2010 8:13:57 PM PST by NicknamedBob (If we did not believe we could not die, we would never do the things that make us immortal.)
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To: NicknamedBob
I sort of agree with you, but not here:

Yes, a house designed to be efficient costs more, but that investment saves energy in the long run, which saves money.

"In the long run" is not calculable. If my new energy-efficient house saves $1000 a year in energy consumption but costs $100,000 extra on construction and has an anticipated 50-year lifetime (all costs assumed to remain constant over time), it's a loss.

"Feeding the grid" has many problems. For example, if the grid is down (as in our nasty windstorm a few years back) it's nice to supply the neighbors. But what about the repair crews? And the variability of some alternative wind sources has led to massive dam dumps, apparently killing off salmon stock.

The one thing we lack bigtime is efficient energy storage. Get that one on a short-time basis, say 24 to 48 hours of 50% of online electrical demand, then we can move forward. Until then it just won't fly. Much.

190 posted on 02/03/2010 8:25:05 PM PST by sionnsar (IranAzadi|5yst3m 0wn3d-it's N0t Y0ur5:SONY|Remember Neda Agha-Soltan|TV--it's NOT news you can trust)
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To: sionnsar

The only technique for efficient energy storage I see in the offing is flywheel (kinetic) energy storage. You spin up a massive rotating cylinder with a motor/generator integrated into its evacuated chamber.

There are arguments pro and con whether the energy would be more efficiently handled as DC or AC, but the flywheel would store energy either way, with relatively minimal losses.

If an area needs to be taken down for repair from storm damage, that area needs to be cleanly excised from the active service grid. That means relatively advanced control equipment, but we’ll need that anyway.

I’d like to see an effort to reduce the scale of wind turbine equipment to something a homeowner could consider investing in for himself. To me, the most sensible design in that regard is a vertical axis wind turbine. They make relatively good neighbors.

Those devices could feed directly into the neighborhood storage facility, composed of banks of spinning flywheels. The local utility company would tap those sources as needed, or feed them as needed.

Another input could be solar cell installations. Typically, they produce more power during the day, when it is needed less, and no power at night, when it is desirable. The local energy storage bank could help with that as well.

One could even have a fuel operated generator feeding into the system, if someone wanted the security of that, or used it in a multi-role capacity as both a power generator and a heat source. If, for example, you wanted to heat your domestic hot water for bathing with natural gas, what would be wrong with running a generator? The heat from the internal combustion motor could go to heat your water, and the mechanical energy could produce electricity.

The 24 to 48 hours might be a bit ambitious as well. What might work well is a two-tiered system. Perhaps a twelve-volt DC system for emergency lights and such, designed for several days, and the fully-energized AC system that can operate your air-conditioner.


191 posted on 02/03/2010 8:56:17 PM PST by NicknamedBob (If we did not believe we could not die, we would never do the things that make us immortal.)
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To: NicknamedBob

192 posted on 02/04/2010 4:24:23 AM PST by Tax-chick ("Contrary to what politicians expect us to do, let's stop and think. " ~Thomas Sowell, of course)
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To: Monkey Face

Attention, prayer warriors!

Our daughter had emergency gall bladder surgery (removed) on Monday night. Last night she went to the emergency room in severe pain; as I speak she is undergoing a second operation.

Baby is with grandma and grandpa. I’m trying to learn what infants are all about, and what it really means when she spits her bottle back into my ear. ;-)

I need divine intervention for both Whitney and the frazzled grandparents.


193 posted on 02/04/2010 10:50:39 AM PST by Not A Snowbird (Socialism is the plundering of the productive by the unaccountable)
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To: SandyInSeattle
Zon had her gall bladder out a few months after Pete was born. No complications, thank the Gods.

Prayers up...

194 posted on 02/04/2010 11:31:10 AM PST by Dead Corpse (III, Oathkeeper)
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To: SandyInSeattle

Hang tough, Grammie.

I’ll send a bunch of prayers for all of you, and also ask that the sweet baby, so fresh from God, will have some angels to divert her attention when the Grams need the rest.

*HUGS*


195 posted on 02/04/2010 12:10:47 PM PST by Monkey Face (I wear a yellow ribbon for my Army Hero grandson and the warrior goddess of the Coasties)
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To: Dead Corpse

I had my gall bladder out in 1980. It seems to be that most of the women in my family have had gall bladder problems.

I seem to be the one who got through it all with flying colors. While my mother almost died from it, I was home in three days.


196 posted on 02/04/2010 12:14:11 PM PST by Monkey Face (I wear a yellow ribbon for my Army Hero grandson and the warrior goddess of the Coasties)
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To: Tax-chick; All

YOIKS!

I can actually post here!! *swoon*

Query: Is it my imagination, or does FR seem to go down during FReepathons, or shortly after?


197 posted on 02/04/2010 12:16:18 PM PST by Monkey Face (I wear a yellow ribbon for my Army Hero grandson and the warrior goddess of the Coasties)
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To: sionnsar; NicknamedBob

Big news! Yesterday, I had a haircut and now I have curls...all my life I’ve had straight hair...or curls out of a bottle.

Could this be because I’ve been reading sion’s hair-curling escapades overseas, or Bob’s hair-curling exploits in his books?

Either way: Thanks, guys!!


198 posted on 02/04/2010 12:19:52 PM PST by Monkey Face (I wear a yellow ribbon for my Army Hero grandson and the warrior goddess of the Coasties)
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To: Monkey Face

Do I dare?


199 posted on 02/04/2010 12:20:10 PM PST by Monkey Face (I wear a yellow ribbon for my Army Hero grandson and the warrior goddess of the Coasties)
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To: Monkey Face

!


200 posted on 02/04/2010 12:20:19 PM PST by Monkey Face (I wear a yellow ribbon for my Army Hero grandson and the warrior goddess of the Coasties)
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