Posted on 01/02/2010 5:26:21 AM PST by freedomyes
Have we remembered that one of the ways of leveling the whole situation is forgiving the enemy? Jesus admonished His children: “Pray for those who persecute you, despitefully use you.” Jesus followed through with His own counsel: “Father, forgive them for they do not know what they are doing.”
(Excerpt) Read more at zenithmax.wordpress.com ...
False
Gospel???
I am Just a Man,
G.Campbell Morgan has a statement Like:
‘God formed Trees and metal and created Man with hands and a Brain.Man formed a cross and nails and hung God from It.’
Can any of Us Comprehend the Goodness of God or the Depravity of Man?
This Guy Is OK!
DON’T TRY TO FIGURE GOD OUT
January 3, 2010 by zenithmax
J. Grant Swank, Jr.
When you do try to figure God out, you play God. Don’t.
All God asks of you is to trust and obey. Remember that old-time hymn? “Trust and obey for there’s no other way to be happy in Jesus but to trust and obey.”
That’s it—start to finish.
The Bible tells us that God’s ways and thoughts are far above ours. Therefore, stay out of deciphering God’s ways and thoughts and let God be God.
Just trust and obey God in the moment.
That is against the teachings of God.
Yes, only God can forgive a man's sins, but only you and I can erase the enmity we hold in our hearts against another of God's children.
And to approach God to ask forgiveness of our sins as we do all day long, we must first forgive our fellow man. We can only ask for God's forgiveness once we have repented of our sins (and that includes forgiving those who have "sinned" against us).
Mat 6:14For if ye forgive men their trespasses [against you], your heavenly Father will also forgive you:Mat 6:15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
If you are spreading a Gospel that teaches that a person does not have to forgive his enemies, then yes, you are spreading a false Gospel.
Between You and Sonofdarkskies...
I ain’t Sayin’ nuttin bout Nobody cept Me !
I do not Know Where Yall comeing From But I Can’t Take this Wimpy Christian, Turn the Other Cheek Junk.
Jesus Rebuked The Religeous Rulers To Thier Face !
He Ran The Money Changers From the Temple,
He Live As A Lamb BUT He Is Returning as King of Kings!
The Lion Of Judah !
Our Founding Fathers Stood Up For this Nation and I Blame Our Current PulPits For Wimpying Out and Not Preaching ‘The Gospel’.
Maybe Your Right,I Say Plenty !!
Judge Not as The Hypocrite,But Judge Rightly with Righteous Judgement!
Between You and Sonofdarkskies...
I ain’t Sayin’ nuttin bout Nobody cept Me !
I do not Know Where Yall comeing From But I Can’t Take this Wimpy Christian, Turn the Other Cheek Junk.
Jesus Rebuked The Religeous Rulers To Thier Face !
He Ran The Money Changers From the Temple,
He Live As A Lamb BUT He Is Returning as King of Kings!
The Lion Of Judah !
Our Founding Fathers Stood Up For this Nation and I Blame Our Current PulPits For Wimpying Out and Not Preaching ‘The Gospel’.
Maybe Your Right,I Say Plenty !!
Judge Not as The Hypocrite,But Judge Rightly with Righteous Judgement!
Heap Burning Coals On Your Enimies Head , Fred!
I have said that we do not have the power to forgive the pain that is inflicted on another...Only the pain inflicted on oneself...in other words, if my child is deliberately injured, only my child has the power to forgive that injury. As their parent I do not have that power..I do not have to forgive as the damage was not done to me...I can only forgive the damage done to me, I can hold against the one that injured my child no forgiveness to the pain of the child. Only to the pain of myself...I will give no forgiveness to the one that injured. I do not have that power....
Don't know if I am making myself clear or not...Forgiveness does not belong to everyone..God can forgive those he chooses to and not forgive those he chooses not to.....His choice.
As has been said upthread, Faith in Jesus/Yeshuah is not for the faint of heart or the cowardly.
You are called to live in Jesus/Yeshuah's example, to let His Spirit come into you and live in you...and he was never wimpy. But his method of warfare does not involve hatred of his enemies.
A person can fight without a heart filled with hatred. If your fight is energized by hatred, you won't go far.
On the other hand, if your fight is energized by His Spirit, while it won't be necessarily be fun, you will be victorious (and there is great satisfaction in fighting as He commands)
If you think those of us who try to live as he commands are choosing a wimpy way of life...you haven't tried it yet.
Martyrdom (that's what he calls us to) is not for cowards. He calls you and all of us to lay down our lives for Him. He calls us to give up our rights to ourselves and that involves our emotions (such as hatred and blame).
Dying to Him is probably the most frightening thing in life (except not dying for Him).
You sound like someone who knows all the right words but is standing on the brink of absolute conversion (of course, I might be wrong and ask your forgiveness if I am).
That said, if I can be of assistance (I am only a humble servant of Him)...please let me know.
OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN . . .
FORGIVE US OUR SINS,
AS
WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO SIN AGAINST US.
#############
Jesus The Christ linked the two very crucially with eternal life implications.
I’ve never found it fruitful to argue with Jesus.
How’s that?
In Biblical terms, from Christ’s own instructions on how to pray . . . as well as other verses . . .
INSUFFICIENT.
We can CHOOSE to forgive. It is a decision.
We can ASK GOD TO MAKE THE EMOTION AND HEART LEVEL REALITY DIFFERENT AND TO CONFORM TO HIS LOVE, GRACE AND MERCY.
WE CAN AND MUST FORGIVE
AS
WE WANT TO BE FORGIVEN.
NONE OF US can bear the penalty for the least of our sins.
Maybe we have to confess forgiveness every time a memory comes up. Maybe we have to pray God’s blessing on them every time a memory comes up. Maybe we have to ask God to change our heart and our emotions about it every time a memory comes up.
Persistence in such WILL RESULT IN CHANGE. God is faithful.
OR
We can refuse and bear the consequences in our bodies, in our relationships, in our spiritual health. Unforgiveness is literally tied to all manner of serious health issues.
See
A MORE EXCELLENT WAY
by Henry Wright.
Unforgiveness turns out to be for the forgiver much more than the forgiven.
USUALLY, forgiving someone means God will have freer reign in dealing with their crud much sooner and much more forcefully. Somehow, it’s as though there’s a spiritual law that God won’t cross near as often or as soon or as much as long as we are unforgiving toward someone. It’s as though He lets our censure of them suffice for His punishment.
We forgive them, then He is freer to deal with them much more forcefully.
Funny ,
King David did not Forgive The Giant Before He Cut His Throat.
The Money Changers??? Chased with a WHIP????
Saducees and the Others, Jesus called Them WHAT?
Whited TOMBS?
I Read This Bible in its Entireity,
and it tells Me of the Goodness And Severity of GOD!
I Like What You Guys are Saying But GET Mad ,SAINTS!
Time is to Short,to Tolerate All This ‘Ungodliness’
If You ain’t Part of the Solution,You The Problem!
Sounds logical.
I don’t find that instruction Biblical.
God commands us to forgive all regardless of whether they ask for it, or not.
FORGIVE US OUR SINS, LORD,
!!!AS!!!!
WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO SIN AGAINST US.
###
Matthew 6:14
“For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
2.Matthew 6:14
“For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
Matthew 6:13-15 (in Context) Matthew 6 (Whole Chapter)
3.Matthew 6:15
But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Matthew 18:20-22 (New King James Version)
20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”
The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant
21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven
Matthew 18:35
“So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”
Mark 11:25
[ Forgiveness and Prayer ] “And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses.
Luke 6:37
[ Do Not Judge ] “Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
Luke 7:47
Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little.”
QUIX: IN MY EXPERIENCE, those who have the hardest time forgiving still have an unrealistic understanding of their own sinfulness, wretchedness.
Luke 11:4
And forgive us our sins, For we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us. And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one.”
)
34.Luke 17:3
Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
Luke 17:4
And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.”
)
37.John 20:23
If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
2 Corinthians 2:2-4 (New King James Version)
2 For if I make you sorrowful, then who is he who makes me glad but the one who is made sorrowful by me?
Forgive the Offender
3 And I wrote this very thing to you, lest, when I came, I should have sorrow over those from whom I ought to have joy, having confidence in you all that my joy is the joy of you all. 4 For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote to you, with many tears, not that you should be grieved, but that you might know the love which I have so abundantly for you.
2 Corinthians 2:7
so that, on the contrary, you ought rather to forgive and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one be swallowed up with too much sorrow.
2 Corinthians 2:10
Now whom you forgive anything, I also forgive. For if indeed I have forgiven anything, I have forgiven that one for your sakes in the presence of Christ,
I disagree.
The Scriptures I listed above demonstrate to me that God expects me to forgive,
REGARDLESS.
Sure, I should work for repentance. However, that’s mostly FIRST between God and the person. Only Holy Spirit can work in them repentance.
In any case, I forgive immediately.
And when I pray the Lord’s Prayer, I pray . . .
“Forgive me my sins as I forgive those who sin against me. Father, I forgive all—everything. I repent of having anything against anyone. I repent of any unfitting judgment.” And if God reminds me of any issue, I forgive it specifically immediately—REGARDLESS.
That frees me spiritually. That blesses me spiritually.
It also looses the other person for God to deal with them more intensely directly.
Anger and unforgiveness devours ones heart and soul. Therefore you forgive others/love your enemies for you own sake...so that your soul is not blemished.
###
ABSOLUTELY.
ABSOLUTELY TRUE:
###
If you don’t take it on yourself to forgive your enemies, that hatred (that’s what it is) will dominate your life.
Is forgiveness the same as forgetting? Of course not.
Is forgiveness something that is easy or quick? Of course not!
If someone murders your family, you can either smolder with anger and have your life ruined by the anger OR you can start the process of purging that anger from your heart.
People are gonna hurt you in life...that’s the nature of living. Parents are going to hurt you, friends are going to hurt and your enemies are definitely going to hurt you.
But it is up to you to deal with it and get over living a life wherein all your thoughts are dominated by blame (and that’s what unforgiveness is).
God is telling us to “get over it and move on”!!!
God is telling us to focus on Him...not spend our lives nursing our wounds.
Their punishment for their “sin” of tyranny is to use themselves up. So by refusing to play along, you do not stand in the way of their punishment. If you suffer and play a victim, you stand in the way of their getting their just desserts.
####
I beleive there’s a very true spiritual principle involved as you outline it.
INDEED:
###
esus was crucified for the good he did.Yet he prayed for his tormentors asking God to forgive them, “for they know not what they do.” There were those, however, who knew precisely what they were doing, or so it seems. This is the most difficult sin to pray for
. . .
We respond as Christians to those who injure us by “eating the sin.” We pray not only for God to touch the aggravator, we also pray that He will lift us above the torment of our attacker and not allow us to torment in return. This means allowing the world to win in order for Christ to have the final victory. Martyrdom is made of this kind of stuff.
###########
ABSOLUTELY.
I think folks fail to realize that when we judge someone else’s sins as too horrible for OUR forgiveness, we are judging ourselves to be GREATLY MORE RIGHTEOUS than the other person.
That PRIDE is eternally poisonous.
We are also failing to realize that our own . . . cruc . . . is equal to anyone else’s crud.
or
We are failing to realize that given THEIR genetics, their parenting, their conditioning, their circumstances . . .
WE MIGHT HAVE DONE WORSE quite easily.
God will not tolerate that PRIDE in Heaven. We must forsake it here. We MUST CHOOSE
TO FORGIVE—REGARDLESS.
I believe that CHRIST FORGAVE ON THE CROSS THOSE WHO KNEW AND THOSE WHO DID NOT KNOW WHAT THEY WERE DOING.
Now, certainly to appropriate His Eternal life, individuals must confess, repent, etc. That’s a different issue.
WE AS FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST MUST FORGIVE AS WE WANT TO BE FORGIVEN. I WANT TO BE FORGIVEN TOTALLY REGARDLESS.
I CHOOSE TO FORGIVE TOTALLY, REGARDLESS.
FORGIVENESS
does NOT necessarily have anything to do with removing God’s nor government’s punishment.
A family that forgives the murderer of their father still recognizes that it’s fitting for the murderer to be executed even when their forgiveness has introduced him to Salvation in Christ.
GOD IS IN CHARGE OF PUNISHMENT.
WE ARE NOT PROSECUTOR, JUDGE AND JURY. GOD IS.
I forgive the traitorous destroyer from hell frequently.
I also ask God to cause him to fall into the pit he has dug for the rest of us.
I forgive to keep my soul, my heart clear.
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