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To: AUH2O Repub

wow I didn’t know that 49 of our states had Indian tribes but Virginia had none. Either that or you don’t have any idea what the hell you are talking about. I think it’s the latter.


13 posted on 11/26/2009 8:17:06 PM PST by fish hawk (It's sad that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom. Isaac Asimov)
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To: fish hawk

When George Allen was governor and the issue of federal recognition would come up, he’d tell the tribes they didn’t want to be affiliated with the federal government. “Stay off the reservation and keep your liberty and freedom,” he’d say. “You’re better off without them.”


14 posted on 11/26/2009 8:36:13 PM PST by HokieMom (Pacepa : Can the U.S. afford a president who can't recognize anti-Americanism?)
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To: fish hawk

There is a fair amount of bias toward unrecognized “tribes” seeking official recognition. There’s the money angle, and then there’s the history.

Most of these unrecognized groups, in the Carolinas, the Virginias, and southern Appalachia in general, have very colorful histories that are part factual and part fantasy. Historically, Virginia was something of a rigid place, at least the populated areas were. In the 1600’s you had indentured servants, some of whom chose to become outlaw and run from their obligation. Later, as indentured servitude fell out of favor due to no more desireable, arable land to grant under the headrights system, came the rise of the African slave trade. These people, too, would occasionally escape and run away.

Where did they end up? They ended up in several places. One was on the border of VA and NC. NC, due to squabbling among the Lords Proprietors in colonial times, remained wild and nearly ungoverned in many areas. Those outside of the law, for whatever reason, often fled here from VA. But, often having ties in and to VA, they chose a location with multiple jurisdictions, and would just go across the border, whenever things got too difficult. The same was true in what became TN after being ceded from NC to form that State. This persisted into the 20th century. See Goinstown for but one example.

The same happened in the remote areas of southwest VA, and what became Kentucky and later West Virginia. These white indentured servants on the lam, and black slaves on the run, found some level of acceptance in native settlements, which were also outside English “civilization,” and so they did what people do, they intermarried or otherwise bore children together, and the resulting, so-called triracial isolate communities were born.

There are many names for these people, above and beyond the tribal names, chosen for legitimate historical reasons in some instances, and chosen out of some flight of fancy in others. Melungeon, from the French melangine, is one term. Redbone is another. The Lumbee in the NC-SC borderlands are another such group. Derogatory names abound. Would-be (indian if they weren’t so black) is one of them.

Funny thing is, some of them claim to be descendants of the Lost Colony of Roanoke Island, and bear English surnames that support the claim. Early explorers of the southern Appalachians told tales of meeting “Portugee” there, who spoke English and had green eyes with curly dark hair. Genetic testing has been surprising, too, so it’s not all a confabulation.

The human element of early history down here is fascinating, convoluted and not very well known. I’m partial to supporting tribal recognition for several of these groups, for this reason, and for possible family relations as another. They’ve been outcast long enough, close to four centuries, and if this brings them around and gives them legitimacy, more power to them.

Others profoundly disagree, and I do understand the basis for the disagreement. They just need to tread very carefully, if verging on mocking the legitimacy of any claims such people make, as to native heritage. You just never know who you’re talking to, or about, on an online forum, and others might just be far better informed.

My particular connection goes back to James Cittie, with legendary claims of descent from the half brother of Chief Powhatan and Mary Sizemore. This half brother was Chief Opechancanough, purportedly a half breed himself, with a Spanish father, which possibly explains his later dealings with the Spanish. Others claim direct descent from William Sizemore and the “princess” daughter of Powhatan herself. Some say Pocahontas, but that was not possiblel; others realize this and claim Matoaka. Genetic testing, again, shows native heriage in the direct male line, so the former seems more likely to be accurate.

The “tribe” to which many of these NC, VA, TN and KY mountain Sizemores belong is the Whitetop Laurel tribe, since the Cherokee didn’t accept them back during the census in the early 1900’s. I’ve got seven people in my maternal lines, who were on that census, known as the Guion-Miller Rolls. There were others, such as the Dawes Rolls, known to Cherokee in Oklahoma.

It’s complicated. But, people do honor their ancestors, their people, whoever they might have been. A southern thing, I guess. And, for the record, the first Thanksgiving WAS at Berkeley Hundred in 1619, before our mythical, so-called Pilgrim Fathers ever blundered into Cape Cod due to a navigational error, while actually on their way to Virginia themselves. How anyone could claim otherwise with a straight face, has always amazed me.


15 posted on 11/26/2009 9:15:04 PM PST by RegulatorCountry
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